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2020 Series 3 | Indians @ Twins | July 30-31 & August 1-2

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Lee said:
I would say its too early to say they hit on Karinchak, wouldn't you? I know you know more than I, but everyone is saying he still has control issues, but has gotten much better and could walk the bases loaded next outing.

But to me he has looked great.
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Karinchak is assuredly a hit already.

If the guy had his stuff and strikeout numbers, without walking people, we'd be asking where you think he's going to end up with the all-time greats.
 
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CATS44 said:
In seven games, every Tribe starter has gone at least six innings. In six games, no Twins starter has gone more than five.
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This would be a huge advantage for the Indians over a 162 game season because the Twins bullpen would be fried having to pitch 3-4 innings or more every game. But over a short 60-game season and with an expanded bullpen it won't be nearly as much of an advantage.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
I think we are looking at the pitcher in front of us and saying "This is who he is."

The difference is--that analysis is being made based off years of track record, as well as a look at what he's actually doing currently. Things like velocity, pitch movement, and peripherals, that are good indicators of future success.

To me, all of those things hold more water than basic stats compiled over 4 innings.....
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I tend to put a lot more weight on what I'm seeing in front of me than on those years of (minor league) track record. Young pitchers grow and develop.

“I’ve never been that much of a punchout pitcher,” Bieber said, “especially coming up through the minors. The book on me was pitch to contact, this and that. I made some adjustments over the past couple years and started to see more swing-and-miss.”

For me the key part of that was, "I made some adjustments over the past couple of years..."

It looks like Civale and Pleasac made some adjustments, too.
 
I love Karinchak - but his control issues should not be dismissed due to his excellent stuff/ K-power. With the new extra inning rules I would not send him out to close an extra inning game yet. If you aren't running Hand out there ( I wouldn't), then I'd look at Perez or Wittgren or maybe Hill. Whoever is due up probably dictates that.

Hitters are going to try to rattle Karinchak - sitting on pitches and forcing him to throw strikes. Right now I think his goal is to throw strikes no matter what so he might go off the rails in epic fashion a few times this year.. We'll see.
 
Criznit said:
I love Karinchak - but his control issues should not be dismissed due to his excellent stuff/ K-power. With the new extra inning rules I would not send him out to close an extra inning game yet. If you aren't running Hand out there ( I wouldn't), then I'd look at Perez or Wittgren or maybe Hill. Whoever is due up probably dictates that.

Hitters are going to try to rattle Karinchak - sitting on pitches and forcing him to throw strikes. Right now I think his goal is to throw strikes no matter what so he might go off the rails in epic fashion a few times this year.. We'll see.
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With the nasty fastball/curve combo and the control issues, it's tough not to see a young Craig Kimbrel out there when I watch Karinchak. Here's hoping he can match Kimbrel's success on the field.
 
Wham with the Right Hand said:
I tend to put a lot more weight on what I'm seeing in front of me than on those years of (minor league) track record. Young pitchers grow and develop.

“I’ve never been that much of a punchout pitcher,” Bieber said, “especially coming up through the minors. The book on me was pitch to contact, this and that. I made some adjustments over the past couple years and started to see more swing-and-miss.”

For me the key part of that was, "I made some adjustments over the past couple of years..."

It looks like Civale and Pleasac made some adjustments, too.
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Nobody ever said young players can't grow and make adjustments. You're arguing against stuff nobody said.

FWIW, Bieber always missed bats at a solid rate in the minors despite moving through the levels so quickly.

I'd also like to add that nobody said Civale won't be successful as you asserted in an earlier post. All anybody said was that he needs to start missing more bats to remain successful beyond last season.

Also, Karinchak is currently averaging 11.3 K/9 and 4.5 BB/9 in four innings this year. Is that not high strikeouts and high walks? Now, four innings is a completely meaningless sample size, but I'm curious how you've come to interpret those numbers as something besides high strikeouts and high walks.
 
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Derek said:
With the nasty fastball/curve combo and the control issues, it's tough not to see a young Craig Kimbrel out there when I watch Karinchak. Here's hoping he can match Kimbrel's success on the field.
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Agreed - he has the potential to be one of the greats. As he matures he will allow a few base runners on his own, so I'd avoid sending him out there with existing base runners as much as possible for now, unless there are already 2 outs.
 
Criznit said:
Agreed - he has the potential to be one of the greats. As he matures he will allow a few base runners on his own, so I'd avoid sending him out there with existing base runners as much as possible for now, unless there are already 2 outs.
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If a runner is already starting at second, isn't a walk not even that big of a deal in extra innings?
 
Derek said:
Only two guys have cracked 16 in the last two years. Aroldis Chapman in '18 (16.31) and Josh Hader last year (16.42).
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I said 5 years, if you are going to do the research then do the research. (kidding)….22 per 9 seemed crazy, even for minors, and yep..it is...thank you.
 
I like what I see from Karinchak...and Hill...and Chang...and Zimmer.

But of those four, only Karinchak has MiLB track record that suggests its real...and even.there its marred by wildness....and none have a MLB track record.

I'm not against any of these four. Just advocating for some caution. Even s broken clock gets it right twice a day.
 
CATS44 said:
I like what I see from Karinchak...and Hill...and Chang...and Zimmer.

But of those four, only Karinchak has MiLB track record that suggests its real...and even.there its marred by wildness....and money have a MLB track record.

I'm not against any of these four. Just advocating for some caution. Even s broken clock gets it right twice a day.
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Zimmer has a really good MiLB track record as well.

Chang’s is solid. Hasn’t done anything in the MLB though.

Hill was pretty solid last year.

I don’t think anyone is expecting stardom from any of them. Maybe Karinchak has a chance.
 
On to other things....partly fun, partly to show how fickle...and fairly worthless...projections are.

At this point in time the Indians are solid favs to win the division and have the best record in the AL.

According to BR.
 
Again, it depends up on your definition of a good track record.

Zimmer K'd at a 25% rate in the minors which hot worse as he moved up...to 38% in AAA.

He also struggled with lefties, which got to the point of total annihilation as he moved up.
 
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