2020 NBA Draft

Kizzle said:

Picking 5 with how bad we are just isn’t enough in a draft like this

Click to expand...

Show me a single draft in the past 10 years where the 3 best players in the first round were all gone by the time the team picking fifth came up.

Furthermore, show me a single draft in the past 10 years that didn't include 3 all-star caliber talents.

It's more than enough. The Cavs just have to hit on the pick.

This are half-baked thoughts, but I can't sanction trading the #5 pick for a decent veteran who barely moves the needle. #5 in this draft may be a die roll - at best - but it offers an upside that trading the pick doesn't. Unless the team really thinks adding a couple rotation worthy players will make the entire puzzle fit better and have a nice trickle down effect. We need a good wing with length so badly. Cedi belongs on the bench.

Sexton
Porter
Good wing
Love
Drummond

Garland
Cedi
Windler
TT?

Who is the best 3 in this draft/available through trade?

Randolphkeys said:

My God, it's like I just explained to you how Spotify works, you listened to Spotify tonight, and you come back to me with junk mail promising 12 CDs for a penny.

Times have changed. Teams who tank are securing a top 4-8 finish not the near assurance of a top four pick, which they secured before the rule change. I'm not even a mathematics mind but I saw the shift right away. I'm done being patient for everyone else to look at the pure numbers and realize tanking is a dead strategy.

I actually believe the Cavalier front office has figured it out, but it took them a year and a half. The Drummond trade was their first suggestion of abandoning the past and I loved it. It's time for fans to figure it out.

Click to expand...

I'm not so sure we sucked deliberately either. A true tank job would have begun with letting Love walk.

The early preseason injury to Love put us on a path of suckitude that the FO didn't anticipate. With Windler down also, the outside shooting of this team took a big kick in the nuts. "Can't miss" Garland became "can't hit" Garland, and that completed the unanticipated shooting kick in the nuts trifecta. And add to that mess that even Sexton's 3 point shot was missing for the first couple months of the season, and then of course the JR circus. Then Beilein -- a hiring that was widely applauded here -- completely blew up in their faces. I think they really believed Beilein could get the most out of this roster. Instead, he got the least.

In fairness, the Cavs neither planned nor expected any of that, and I think they planned/hoped to be significantly better than they were. In addition to not expecting all the above to go wrong, I think they expected/hoped for more growth from Cedi. I truly believe they thought this team would be at least 10 games better than it was -- probably more.

I don't think the Drummond acquisition reflected a change in approach as much as it was just circumstances -- Detroit was giving it one last shot with Drummond, and weren't willing to trade him as just a dump until it actually happened. To put it differently, I think the Cavs would have made that trade in a heartbeat before the season had the Pistons been willing.

Probably also worth nothing that we had no idea the season would end 17 games early, and if we'd kept playing at the level we did after JB took over and we got Drummond, we very likely would have been out of the Top 5 altogether. And that also cuts against the "deliberate tank" theory.

Sir'Dom Pointer said:

So Onyeka seems like the easy choice, no?

Click to expand...

If you are considering value and roster fit, he seems like the obvious choice to me. He's the big archetype for building around an undersized backcourt that lacks defensive pop.

Lots of Obi momentum in the media with us at 5 though.......which gives me a stomach ache. I can't imagine how horrendous we would be on defense adding him to the guard duo.

#5 is kind of no mans land in this draft for us......if we are operating under the assumption that a guard is not under consideration, that leaves us with only a few obvious choices, at least to me. It seems like it is either OO or Deni. Deni seems to have a lot of Chicago buzz tough, so he may not even be there.

Okongwu's not my favorite prospect, but I'd be thrilled to draft him given some of the other possibilities.

Man Called X said:

It's a Vassell or Deni pick for me. I'll find a way to be happy with either one, and immediately recognize that the one we don't pick will have an infinitely better career than our draft pick.

Click to expand...

Spoke my mind.
But Deni might be taken in the top 4. Assuming no trading up/down, I think the draft order would be:
1. Edwards to Wolves
2. Wiseman to GS
3. Okongwu to Hornets
4. Avdija to Bulls
5. Ball, Vassell, or Toppin to Cavs

Vipra said:

Spoke my mind.
But Deni might be taken in the top 4. Assuming no trading up/down, I think the draft order would be:
1. Edwards to Wolves
2. Wiseman to GS
3. Okongwu to Hornets
4. Avdija to Bulls
5. Ball, Vassell, or Toppin to Cavs

Click to expand...

I may actually die if Ball somehow falls all the way to 5 and then the Cavs pass on him for Vassell or Toppin.

Nathan S said:

Okongwu's not my favorite prospect, but I'd be thrilled to draft him given some of the other possibilities.

Click to expand...

Yeah, he's not a super sexy pick.......but he's one of the few guys in that range where, 12 months from now, you may still feel confident in as a core piece.

Looking at the lay of the land in the 5 range (my assumption is the usual suspects are gone)......I tend to gravitate towards OO, Vassell, Okoro or Deni. Vassell is probably the player who will gain steam as the process kicks off. I think he is going to have the right mix of skill, analytics and attitude that the FO's will really like.

Vassell recently had a pretty candid interview where he said (paraphrasing) "I see a lot of people call me a 3&D player, which is fine.......but I've spent my off-season work on 3 things......My handle, my passing and my shooting off the move". So he seems like a guy who really has it between the ears too. I'm curious to see what kind of momentum he starts to get.

I'mWithDan said:

Yeah, he's not a super sexy pick.......but he's one of the few guys in that range where, 12 months from now, you may still feel confident in as a core piece.

Looking at the lay of the land in the 5 range (my assumption is the usual suspects are gone)......I tend to gravitate towards OO, Vassell, Okoro or Deni. Vassell is probably the player who will gain steam as the process kicks off. I think he is going to have the right mix of skill, analytics and attitude that the FO's will really like.

Vassell recently had a pretty candid interview where he said (paraphrasing) "I see a lot of people call me a 3&D player, which is fine.......but I've spent my off-season work on 3 things......My handle, my passing and my shooting off the move". So he seems like a guy who really has it between the ears too. I'm curious to see what kind of momentum he starts to get.

Click to expand...

I'm a bit wary of Vassell. My draft rater doesn't dislike him, projecting him as a mild positive on both ends of the court which is solid for a late lottery/mid first guy (though a bit underwhelming for #5 overall). But is he actually a great shooter? At a glance the 41.5% from 3 says that he obviously is. But he was actually a relatively low volume shooter. After that ridiculous game against VT where he went 7/7 from 3, he averaged just 1 make per game for the last 9 games of his season. That, combined with his extremely low free throw rate, makes me pretty concerned about his potential as a scorer. He's certainly talking about the right things, because those are the areas where he'll need to excel in order to be more than just a very efficient 4th/5th option.

Nathan S said:

I'm a bit wary of Vassell. My draft rater doesn't dislike him, projecting him as a mild positive on both ends of the court which is solid for a late lottery/mid first guy (though a bit underwhelming for #5 overall). But is he actually a great shooter? At a glance the 41.5% from 3 says that he obviously is. But he was actually a relatively low volume shooter. After that ridiculous game against VT where he went 7/7 from 3, he averaged just 1 make per game for the last 9 games of his season. That, combined with his extremely low free throw rate, makes me pretty concerned about his potential as a scorer. He's certainly talking about the right things, because those are the areas where he'll need to excel in order to be more than just a very efficient 4th/5th option.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree with that. For me, with Vassell, I'm more wait and see on his measurements. If he's really 6'4".......he'd be more of a pass at #5........but if he is a legit 6'7"as listed, I think the calculus changes on him significantly......because with that size, you can play him at the 3. And a true two way player there is incredibly valuable. As a 2, I do agree he lacks the potential scoring punch (without significant improvement).......and he doesn't seem like a guy who can rise in to the top 5.......but if he's 6'7", with length, he's a pretty intriguing dice role.

One of Ball, Okongwu or Deni will fall to us at 5 and that makes me happy. The top guys in this draft all have questions and any of the top 6-7 guys could end up being the best players. Picking 5 last year is much different than 5 this year.

Just curious...how many folks here would trade Garland straight up to Detroit/NYK for their 1st (#7 and #8 respectively)? We could then feasibly pick up a wing (Deni/Vassell/Okoro) and an actual backcourt complement to Sexton (Haliburton/Hayes/Ball?). I know bailing on a lotto pick after 1 year of under-performing will not yield the best return, but I would feel a lot better about the Cavs going forward if they did something like this.

I'mWithDan said:

Yeah, I agree with that. For me, with Vassell, I'm more wait and see on his measurements. If he's really 6'4".......he'd be more of a pass at #5........but if he is a legit 6'7"as listed, I think the calculus changes on him significantly......because with that size, you can play him at the 3. And a true two way player there is incredibly valuable. As a 2, I do agree he lacks the potential scoring punch (without significant improvement).......and he doesn't seem like a guy who can rise in to the top 5.......but if he's 6'7", with length, he's a pretty intriguing dice role.

Click to expand...

I do think he'll measure 6'5" in socks, if not a smidge taller. He's a good defensive prospect. But is it enough? If he's a "good" defender, i.e. above league-average but not an All-Defense kind of guy, and a league-average outside shooter, where does that get you? Sure he's a 10-year starter, but it feels like kicking the can down the road considering that we haven't yet found a star. It seems like he'll need to significantly exceed expectations in some area to be worth a mid-lottery pick.

On Vassell I'll wait on the measurements. If he measures/projects to be a 3 and D SG then I pass at 5. If he measures anywhere close to 6'-7" then I'm interested.
Right now Okongwu is probably my favorite prospect that should be available at the pick. He checks all the boxes and will be a good defensive fit with the backcourt we've drafted the past two years.

Nathan S said:

I may actually die if Ball somehow falls all the way to 5 and then the Cavs pass on him for Vassell or Toppin.

Click to expand...

Ball isn't good. So he should fall to 5 and even further then that. It's 2020 dude has a broken shot and is trigger happy. Everyone sees he scored 17-7-7 in Australia and talk about how impressive it is. While they ignore 37 percent from the field and 25 percent from 3. When your hoisting up 7 3s a game and shooting 25 percent you got issues. Dude is like his brother all hype no substance.