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NFL Off-Season Thread

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Jack Brickman said:
Well, one difference is that one of them is good. :chuckle:
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Well Watson is "a little overrated" now, because we've got to justify this emotion-driven take somehow....

:rolleyes:


Such a sub-par effort to cancel Watson, solely because he doesn't comply with the "authority" after being lied to again and again, as Houston's ownership has dishonestly operated and failed again and again.

It's truly a timeless cliche in sports that (certain) players are at fault for wanting out of bad situations.

As though we didn't just watch decades of egregious ownership challenges. Kyle Shanahan creating goddamn PowerPoint slides to get out of Cleveland, where was the cancel mob telling him to "suck it up" and play for this loser franchise? :chuckle:

Bottomless bad faith argumentation.
 
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DJTJ said:
Nailed it. Player gets hurt, gets cut, “just business”.

Player signs an extension to capitalize off his current value, Team becomes a dumpster fire, requests to be moved. Bad leader, bad xyz.

I mean, to be blunt. Wentz signed a contract and got replaced. He should have took it like a leader, and stayed true to the team who signed him. Oh, wait, he also asked to be traded? Weird. The issue... changed?
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Can we stick to the non-race issues of this god damn conversation. Please? Instead of vague insinuations, that posters are racist because they disagree with you? Its fucking insulting.

As i have said before no one forces these players whether its Wentz, Watson, Harden, Kyrie, etc to sign these long term contracts. period. the end. These players want to make a massive amount of money (Which is fair, and I understand the feeling). However when they sign 5 year 200 million dollar contract the the player agrees either to play for the team, or to be traded if the team so chooses, this is the natural outcome of signing a long contract. Of course this is why players have started asking for no trade clauses. It basically ensures that a player is either playing with the team they signed with or can control where THEY want to. There is the reason Lebron James, and a lesser extend Trevor Bauer dont sign 5 year contracts, they want to be able to control where they are, where they play, and if a team isnt doing what they want they can leave. Nothing is keeping all players from doing this very thing.

As far as the Wentz trade demand, Wentz was getting traded regardless and we all know that. His trade demand was immaterial to the fact that hte eagles already knew they needed to move on from him. Watson on the other hand is still an easy top 10 QB, being paid as a top 10 QB, and the texans presumably want to build around him for good reason. To turn things around. Watson 5 months ago signed a contract extension to play WITH THE TEXANS through the 2025 season. For what reason should be able to go back on his 5 month old agreement and say "you know what, i changed my mind"
 
bob2the2nd said:
Can we stick to the non-race issues of this god damn conversation. Please? Instead of vague insinuations, that posters are racist because they disagree with you? Its fucking insulting.

As i have said before no one forces these players whether its Wentz, Watson, Harden, Kyrie, etc to sign these long term contracts. period. the end. These players want to make a massive amount of money (Which is fair, and I understand the feeling). However when they sign 5 year 200 million dollar contract the the player agrees either to play for the team, or to be traded if the team so chooses, this is the natural outcome of signing a long contract. Of course this is why players have started asking for no trade clauses. It basically ensures that a player is either playing with the team they signed with or can control where THEY want to. There is the reason Lebron James, and a lesser extend Trevor Bauer dont sign 5 year contracts, they want to be able to control where they are, where they play, and if a team isnt doing what they want they can leave. Nothing is keeping all players from doing this very thing.

As far as the Wentz trade demand, Wentz was getting traded regardless and we all know that. His trade demand was immaterial to the fact that hte eagles already knew they needed to move on from him. Watson on the other hand is still an easy top 10 QB, being paid as a top 10 QB, and the texans presumably want to build around him for good reason. To turn things around. Watson 5 months ago signed a contract extension to play WITH THE TEXANS through the 2025 season. For what reason should be able to go back on his 5 month old agreement and say "you know what, i changed my mind"
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Perhaps if the Texans wanted to "build around" DeShaun Watson, they wouldn't have broken the trust which influenced him to sign a contract with the team?

But again, you said yourself that you didn't research the background of what happened here. Perhaps you should do that without flying off about the responsibility of players to meet contractual obligations which teams fairly often never live up to on their end.

Are you arguing that he does not have the right to request a trade?

That makes absolutely no sense.

You're demanding a loyalty from players that isn't reciprocated by the league rules or the way ownership interprets them.


Sorry, but I'm not buying the "you should be grateful and shut up" mentality demanded of players, regardless of the dishonesty and outright lying an organization who made promises to them that they not only refused to keep, but straight up lied to him about.

I don't have pity for the Texans, and I hope DeShaun Watson gets his wish to be traded to a team that respects him as an athlete, and the "face of the franchise" he is.
 
AZ_ said:
Well Watson is "a little overrated" now, because we've got to justify this emotion-driven take somehow....

:rolleyes:


Such a sub-par effort to cancel Watson, solely because he doesn't comply with the "authority" after being lied to again and again, as Houston's ownership has dishonestly operated and failed again and again.

It's truly a timeless cliche in sports that (certain) players are at fault for wanting out of bad situations.

As though we didn't just watch decades of egregious ownership challenges. Kyle Shanahan creating goddamn PowerPoint slides to get out of Cleveland, where was the cancel mob telling him to "suck it up" and play for this loser franchise? :chuckle:

Bottomless bad faith argumentation.
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Kyle didn’t play, he was a coach. Another Terrible comparison.
 
AZ_ said:
Perhaps if the Texans wanted to "build around" DeShaun Watson, they wouldn't have broken the trust which influenced him to sign a contract with the team?

But again, you said yourself that you didn't research the background of what happened here. Perhaps you should do that without flying off about the responsibility of players to meet contractual obligations which teams fairly often never live up to on their end.

Are you arguing that he does not have the right to request a trade?

That makes absolutely no sense.

You're demanding a loyalty from players that isn't reciprocated by the league rules or the way ownership interprets them.


Sorry, but I'm not buying the "you should be grateful and shut up" mentality demanded of players, regardless of the dishonesty and outright lying an organization who made promises to them that they not only refused to keep, but straight up lied to him about.

I don't have pity for the Texans, and I hope DeShaun Watson gets his wish to be traded to a team that respects him as an athlete, and the "face of the franchise" he is.
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AZ, since you are so up to date on this.

Can you point to what contract verbiage the Texans broke with regards to Watson, that lets Watson DEMAND (not request) a trade? Or is the answer, as i suspect there isnt any sort of verbiage
 
AZ_ said:
Perhaps if the Texans wanted to "build around" DeShaun Watson, they wouldn't have broken the trust which influenced him to sign a contract with the team?

But again, you said yourself that you didn't research the background of what happened here. Perhaps you should do that without flying off about the responsibility of players to meet contractual obligations which teams fairly often never live up to on their end.

Are you arguing that he does not have the right to request a trade?

That makes absolutely no sense.

You're demanding a loyalty from players that isn't reciprocated by the league rules or the way ownership interprets them.


Sorry, but I'm not buying the "you should be grateful and shut up" mentality demanded of players, regardless of the dishonesty and outright lying an organization who made promises to them that they not only refused to keep, but straight up lied to him about.

I don't have pity for the Texans, and I hope DeShaun Watson gets his wish to be traded to a team that respects him as an athlete, and the "face of the franchise" he is.
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He is overrated. With the amount of stats he put up, he should have more than 4 wins. QBs get the glory and the blame. He realizes he isn’t that good and wants to go somewhere where he doesn’t have to work and put the extra time in.
He should have never signed that extension if he had 1% doubt in that franchise.
 
Players who are considered "franchise players" I think are held to a different standard. I think fans expect those types of players to be able to lead a franchise.

Besides the fact that it was in such poor taste, one of the biggest criticisms that LeBron got for going to Miami is was that he was perceived weak for needed to team up with other stars to win.

Is that fair? Probably not. But I can see why some fans would expect a top 5 QB like Watson to say in Houston and lift the franchise.
 
bob2the2nd said:
AZ, since you are so up to date on this.

Can you point to what contract verbiage the Texans broke with regards to Watson, that lets Watson DEMAND (not request) a trade? Or is the answer, as i suspect there isnt any sort of verbiage
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Or where he can pick his GM/Coach and be in charge of personnel.
 
col63onel said:
Players who are considered "franchise players" I think are held to a different standard. I think fans expect those types of players to be able to lead a franchise.

Besides the fact that it was in such poor taste, one of the biggest criticisms that LeBron got for going to Miami is was that he was perceived weak for needed to team up with other stars to win.

Is that fair? Probably not. But I can see why some fans would expect a top 5 QB like Watson to say in Houston and lift the franchise.
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It is fair. Lebron killed the franchise and the fan base. He absolutely let them all down because he was selfish....
Atleast he was man enough to admit it and not sign an extension and then cry to the media about it 10 months later.
 
See, I get people wanting to stick to the non race related part of these discussions but let me tell you something,

It's hard as fuck to act like race has nothing to do with these situations when shit like this comes out.

I mean, read this and tell me if any black QB in the history of the league could even think about not speaking to his Head Coach for more than one week. Now imagine going damn near a whole season with this attitude.

And now Carson Wentz is already being praised about how good he can be in Indy.

Meanwhile Deshaun Watson couldn't go more than a week into a trade request without former players and media talking heads telling him to sit his ass down and shut up and play ball.

I don't hear any talk about Wentz having a $128M contract and being grateful. Nope.

This is Bull Jive bruhs. Bull Jive.

 
bob2the2nd said:
AZ, since you are so up to date on this.

Can you point to what contract verbiage the Texans broke with regards to Watson, that lets Watson DEMAND (not request) a trade? Or is the answer, as i suspect there isnt any sort of verbiage
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You don't need to breach the terms of the contract to not live up to the promises you made when recruiting a player to sign a contract.

For example, if you go to the media and glorify him as the "face of your franchise," tell him that he will have a say in the hiring process, then purposely ignore him throughout the process, you've straight up lied to him.

If the Texans couldn't live up to the promises they made to him, and went out of their way to do so, Watson has every right explore every avenue to not live up to the promises he made to them.

When teams lie to entice players to sign contracts, they're not acting in good faith. You don't get to just say "LOL sucks for you, you signed" and demand he fall in line.


JDailey23 said:
Or where he can pick his GM/Coach and be in charge of personnel.
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Don't stand up garbage straw man arguments that nobody is making. If you want to troll, take it to a different board.

Have some standards, have an argument, stop being intentionally disingenuous. Quite frankly, you're shitty at it.

If you can't get through a simple discussion without perpetually lying and race baiting (as you were doing earlier), then politely piss off, or put me on ignore.

At some point, I'd hope the moderators at least consider holding you to the standards this board has set up to prevent this type of garbage from pervading it.

bob is being respectful, you are intentionally trying not to be.
 
Carson Wentz has had multiple seasons now where it's been reported that he's a bad teammate. He got benched and demanded a trade. Great leader.
 
AZ_ said:
At some point, I'd hope the moderators at least consider holding you to the standards this board has set up to prevent this type of garbage from pervading it.
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At this point, I've lost count of the number of posters who wove personal attacks into their post. And over what?

Watson? Wentz?!?!

What does he even have to do with the Browns?

Let's all take a step back here, gents.
 
JDailey23 said:
He is overrated. With the amount of stats he put up, he should have more than 4 wins. QBs get the glory and the blame. He realizes he isn’t that good and wants to go somewhere where he doesn’t have to work and put the extra time in.
He should have never signed that extension if he had 1% doubt in that franchise.
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Football is a team game. Browns fans should know as well as anyone how hard it is to win with bad coaching, an inept front office, and a lack of talent on the field.

This is a team that traded DeAndre Hopkins, one of the best receivers in football, for a RB who had one elite season like five years ago and a 2nd, which they promptly flipped for a WR who is one concussion away from being out of football. A front office that just had to cut a future Hall of Famer because of how bad the team is. A front office of a four win team that has no first or second round picks and virtually no tradeable assets outside of their QB. A front office that has gotten their franchise star QB murdered year after year behind terrible offensive lines.

Yes, Watson signed a contract with the team. But what was the alternative? If he doesn't sign, they just franchise him and he risks injury on a one year deal. The move for every NFL player is to take the guaranteed money on the table, because football is a brutal sport and a career can be over at any moment.
 
JDailey23 said:
He realizes he isn’t that good and wants to go somewhere where he doesn’t have to work and put the extra time in.
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Assigning him a narrative which makes no sense is not helping your argument, FYI.

Stop trying to incite and enflame, it just isn't a credible argument.
 
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