NFL Off-Season Thread

[Dr. Claw]

Carson Wentz has had multiple seasons now where it's been reported that he's a bad teammate. He got benched and demanded a trade. Great leader.

As the resident Eagles fan, Carson is looking every much the chump with each little story being leaked out.
To be butthurt about a QB drafted in the second round, like he was ever going to play last season....

The Browns played the Eagles last season so a number of you saw it first hand, but some games, he was playing like he had no idea what was in front of him on the field. Holding on to the ball and taking bad sacks. Then he would rally back to an almost-win (like he did against the Steelers and Ravens).

It got so bad, he needed to be benched.
I will say that whatever being said above to defend Deshaun over Wentz, I agree with. Wentz was worse for the Eagles last season than Manziel was for the Browns.

"QB Controversy" is a given with the Eagles, but I'll say this. Donovan McNabb never had a cow like this over the backup QB. Not even Jeff Garcia, when the fans were clamoring for him to be the starter, and dum-dums were making "McPuke" style jokes.

I'm glad it's over. Best of luck to the Colts with him on the team. They took our QB1, we take their coaches. I'm a fan of Frank Reich going back to the Bills and he was a huge part of the Eagles Super Bowl win. Wentz needed to go. Eagles are pretty much hosed next season with the cap.

So.... Go Browns? Get JJ, get that storybook Super Bowl win soon after.

 

[CBBI]

The main thing I've taken from this thread is that Deshaun Watson just needs to do the white right thing.

 

[JDailey23]

The main thing I've taken from this thread is that Deshaun Watson just needs to do the white right thing.

Really?
Watson has every right to request a trade and Houston has every right to tell him to go F himself. Ultimately, Watson will get traded, because that’s how much power athletes really have now. It may not be this season, but he’s going to get moved eventually.

 

[bob2the2nd]

fucking forget

 

[DJTJ]

Really?
Watson has every right to request a trade and Houston has every right to tell him to go F himself. Ultimately, Watson will get traded, because that’s how much power athletes really have now. It may not be this season, but he’s going to get moved eventually.

Legit, I don’t understand why this is a bad thing? I signed a contract to work at my employer, but I can leave whenever I want- why can’t he request to be moved? Why is players having power a bad thing? He’s not going to leave for nothing, and Houston will get multiple times more for him than they gave up to get him.

 

[DJTJ]

Is it the white right thing to bring up race every chance you get?

despite a subject being absolutely and 100%, not about race

I vehemently disagree whenWatson and Wentz are being claimed to be different things than they actually are.

Wentz is a POS and a scrub. Watson, by all accounts, is a terrific teammate and human being. Watson is worth his contract, Wentz isn’t.

One is allowed to demand a trade, one isn’t. The one who isn’t gets vilified for wanting out for similar lack of trust than the one who was allowed to demand a trade.

 

[AZ_]

Legit, I don’t understand why this is a bad thing? I signed a contract to work at my employer, but I can leave whenever I want- why can’t he request to be moved? Why is players having power a bad thing? He’s not going to leave for nothing, and Houston will get multiple times more for him than they gave up to get him.

IMO, quite a bit of it is the social conditioning.

The demand of submission and compliance to authority, money and power is a natural part of life for some.

"Be thankful for what you have, shut up and work" is the mentality of so many because of how they grew up, the occupations they work, their parents worked, etc.

Fighting for what you believe is right isn't for everyone, and its too often become something that is weaponized AGAINST people who fight for what they believe is right.

We haven't fully grasped the concept that the value is in workers themselves, the skills they have which affords them their value, and the SOCIETAL power which they have in the age of social media, internet, personal branding, etc.

The sunshine those mediums provide are clashing with traditional, largely flawed, concepts of "players play, owners own" mentality, and any non-conformity is going to be looked at negatively.

Resistance to change is greater than demand to conform, and non-conformity is big and scary for some more than others.




Then, to take thngs a step further:
The face of that dissent largely driven by (certain) athletes over time, the effect of those narratives and cliches have targeted (certain) athletes over others, which lumps it in with the modern political issues that those athletes grew up experiencing.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I vehemently disagree whenWatson and Wentz are being claimed to be different things than they actually are.

Wentz is a POS and a scrub. Watson, by all accounts, is a terrific teammate and human being. Watson is worth his contract, Wentz isn’t.

One is allowed to demand a trade, one isn’t. The one who isn’t gets vilified for wanting out for similar lack of trust than the one who was allowed to demand a trade.

I'd also point out that one is coming off of a season where he played so badly that the team put a rookie in just to see what they had.

The other had arguably his best professional season, but the team was so lacking in talent on both ends of the field that they could only win four games.

These are similar situations with regards to inept front offices, but one guy did everything he could on a franchise that's going nowhere fast while the other's play was a big part of the reason why his team was so bad.

 

[Ohio]

I don't blame Watson for wanting out of a disastrous situation, but signing that contract was, frankly, stupid. This isn't even hindsight, it was stupid even at the time he signed it. It was pretty obvious to just about everyone outside of Houston that the ship was going to crash sooner rather than later.

I don't see this situation being so complicated. Watson screwed up signing that contract. Houston screwed up doing everything they do. But I also don't blame Houston if they refuse to trade him; they can do whatever the hell they want since Watson signed the contract. Watson's only leverage is to sit out, which in the long run would probably be better for Houston anyway, so he doesn't get killed while they take years to build a team around him.

On a similar note, it might actually benefit Houston to trade him, as crazy as that sounds. They so greatly lack assets that it is going to take years for them to be competitive again, even with Watson. Not to mention, he'll always clutch a few wins by himself, taking the team out of the very top of the draft. The haul Houston would get for trading him would be historic - it would shorten the rebuild significantly.

Trading a top 5 QB at 25 years old sounds nuts, but this is essentially an expansion team right now. No QB in NFL history could win in the foreseeable future with this team.

 

[Los216]

I don't blame Watson for wanting out of a disastrous situation, but signing that contract was, frankly, stupid. This isn't even hindsight, it was stupid even at the time he signed it. It was pretty obvious to just about everyone outside of Houston that the ship was going to crash sooner rather than later.

I don't see this situation being so complicated. Watson screwed up signing that contract. Houston screwed up doing everything they do. But I also don't blame Houston if they refuse to trade him; they can do whatever the hell they want since Watson signed the contract. Watson's only leverage is to sit out, which in the long run would probably be better for Houston anyway, so he doesn't get killed while they take years to build a team around him.

On a similar note, it might actually benefit Houston to trade him, as crazy as that sounds. They so greatly lack assets that it is going to take years for them to be competitive again, even with Watson. Not to mention, he'll always clutch a few wins by himself, taking the team out of the very top of the draft. The haul Houston would get for trading him would be historic - it would shorten the rebuild significantly.

Trading a top 5 QB at 25 years old sounds nuts, but this is essentially an expansion team right now. No QB in NFL history could win in the foreseeable future with this team.

How was it stupid for him to sign that contract? You do know that had he not signed that contract they would've franchised him and that wouldn't have changed anything.

Plus from Deshaun Watson's end why would you not sign that contract and risk a situation like what just happened to Dak?

 

[Benway]

I imagine he'd have been franchised repeatedly if he hadn't signed that contract, and you remember how long it took Cousins to get away from WFT under those circumstances.
I don't think the contract is really a factor here; it's the fact that ownership has such a firm and unyielding grip on control.

 

[Ohio]

How was it stupid for him to sign that contract? You do know that had he not signed that contract they would've franchised him and that wouldn't have changed anything.

Plus from Deshaun Watson's end why would you not sign that contract and risk a situation like what just happened to Dak?

Because it was blatantly obvious to everyone that Houston was a dumpster fire. You can only franchise a guy so many times. Hell, that wouldn't have even been a bad thing for Watson. While being franchised for a few years, he could have seen if Houston would get their shit together. Would have been almost like a trial run.

That is the risk/reward with wanting to change teams for franchise players. And there should be a risk/reward for that (not to that level though, there should definitely be better financial protections for franchised players beyond just the one year salary). This idea that you should be able to sign a 6 year contract and just months later jump to another team of your choosing is laughable, and the #1 reason why the NBA sucks right now.

Watson decided not to take the risk. That was his choice. But now he has to live with his future not being in his hands. It sucks for him but it is the reality of the situation - and the way it should be, frankly.

 

[AZ_]

Because it was blatantly obvious to everyone that Houston was a dumpster fire. You can only franchise a guy so many times. Hell, that wouldn't have even been a bad thing for Watson. While being franchised for a few years, he could have seen if Houston would get their shit together. Would have been almost like a trial run.

That is the risk/reward with wanting to change teams for franchise players. And there should be a risk/reward for that (not to that level though, there should definitely be better financial protections for franchised players beyond just the one year salary). This idea that you should be able to sign a 6 year contract and just months later jump to another team of your choosing is laughable, and the #1 reason why the NBA sucks right now.

Watson decided not to take the risk. That was his choice. But now he has to live with his future not being in his hands. It sucks for him but it is the reality of the situation - and the way it should be, frankly.

Exactly why players should exercise their power to request trades and refuse to play for teams who shouldn't get their shit together.

Given that, by your own admission, his only other option is still playing for the franchise that can't get its shit together, but playing without the contractual security he deserves as an elite player after his rookie contract.


Why should the reality of the situation "suck for him?"

It also sucks for players is signing contracts, getting hurt, and then getting sent to the street by a team that is under no obligation to live up to the contract terms that they signed.

Describing that the situation sucks either way for players is not making the argument you think it is.

 

[JDailey23]

Exactly why players should exercise their power to request trades and refuse to play for teams who shouldn't get their shit together.

Given that, by your own admission, his only other option is still playing for the franchise that can't get its shit together, but playing without the contractual security he deserves as an elite player after his rookie contract.


Why should the reality of the situation "suck for him?"

It also sucks for players is signing contracts, getting hurt, and then getting sent to the street by a team that is under no obligation to live up to the contract terms that they signed.

Describing that the situation sucks either way for players is not making the argument you think it is.

So, why not just sign a two year deal or keep playing under the Franchise tag. At that point you can then tell the Texans to trade you or literally sit out. That forces their hand more to get shit straight or move on.
Watson is legit trapped now. He has the right to request or demand a trade, but it still doesn’t mean he will get it.

 

[Los216]

Because it was blatantly obvious to everyone that Houston was a dumpster fire. You can only franchise a guy so many times. Hell, that wouldn't have even been a bad thing for Watson. While being franchised for a few years, he could have seen if Houston would get their shit together. Would have been almost like a trial run.

That is the risk/reward with wanting to change teams for franchise players. And there should be a risk/reward for that (not to that level though, there should definitely be better financial protections for franchised players beyond just the one year salary). This idea that you should be able to sign a 6 year contract and just months later jump to another team of your choosing is laughable, and the #1 reason why the NBA sucks right now.

Watson decided not to take the risk. That was his choice. But now he has to live with his future not being in his hands. It sucks for him but it is the reality of the situation - and the way it should be, frankly.

Not exactly.

Had Deshaun Watson not signed that contract in 2020 he would've been hit with the franchise tag in 2021. Then a team would've had to give up 2 1st round picks to get him. If HOU wouldn't have wanted to trade him they would've for sure hit him with the tag again in 2022. Draft compensation would've still been that high to trade for him.

So basically nothing would be different if Deshaun Watson would not have signed that contract in 2020 except for one thing.

That one thing is this. If Deshaun Watson doesn't sign that contract in 2020 and he suffered a major injury like Dak did then he's fucked. And now people are saying he's stupid for nit signing that huge contract for security.

Basically there is no reasoning that makes it look bad for Deshaun Watson to sign that deal in 2020. Regardless if he wanted to stay in HOU or not.

He was never going to have a say in where he wanted to go without signing a contract and having a no trade clause.