Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

Cavatt said:

Passing and finishing in the pick and roll, step back 3's, left handed passes in the paint, drop off pass, Eurostep, hesitation dribble cross over dribble. I must have amnesia, I don't remember that stuff from earlier in the year.

He is showing some guard skills now

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I must have amnesia, I don’t remember quoting you.

Okoro been doing the euro step to the basket and the step back 3. That’s nothing new. The shots are now falling. Like I said, Okoro offensive bag is bare. I’ve been calling Okoro a 2 since week 1. He’s been showing guard skills otherwise I would’ve never stated it.

ETA: I’ve been calling for Okoro to be involved in the PnR for how long now? And Okoro been a good passer. He pass up open shots left and right.

CleveRocks said:

I think rookie minutes track to long term player success.. if he can give you 35-40 a game all season, no major injuries, he can play starter minutes.. The more he plays, the more the game slows down for him.. Consider Windler, who has been unable to sustain back up minutes, and just has not progressed as a player..

Also, I like seeing him battle to win , even when the game does not matter.. Would like to see that fire in Allen..

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I'm all for cumulative minutes for rookies but what I was saying is that 43 minutes in a single game that we want to probably loose is excessive. This wasn't a game to make the playoffs or a playoff game. This was a game at the end of the season when we are tanking. Okoro is averaging 32 minutes a game, that extra 11 minutes is alot and could have lead to an injury especially on a back to back.

Okoro has 2000+ minutes under his belt at this point. Only Anthony Edwards has more minutes right now. Keep playing Okoro but don't over work him as we go into the offseason. He will make strides in the off-season if he is healthy. He can't be in the gym working out if he hurts himself.

I also think you're off with how much a player should average. 35-40 minutes is alot. The top 5 players in minutes per game in the NBA average 36-37.2. Only 15 players average 35+ minutes per game. Okoro is already averaging solid minutes for a starter.

Cavatt said:

Look at the minutes Toppin got this year and Okoro. Toppin never gets those minutes back and he will be 23 while Okoro is 20 and led the team in minutes. He went from a guy afraid to shoot, to hitting clutch 3s to keep it close and making and 1s to take it to overtime.

He semi-credibly played secondary playmaker last night and it was impressive.

Cavs are serious about player development, and that means playing rookies minutes they don't deserve.

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The Knick are trying to win and are the 4 seed in the playoffs right now. It shows the importants of trying to get all your core in the same timeline. They just can't afford to play Toppin and take the lumps of his development while trying to win at the same time.

This may be the last draft that the Cavs can give whoever they draft heavy minutes and it won't hurt the team. If you look at the Celtic's roster they have basically a whole other set of young talent that they can't get on the floor because they are trying to win. They are all on a completely different timeline as the starters and are basically wasting away getting very limited minutes.

Having your core be on the same timeline is important. I think Koby should try to use some of our future 2nd round picks to get players in this draft vs waiting 2 or 3 years down the road.

red. said:

I must have amnesia, I don’t remember quoting you.

Okoro been doing the euro step to the basket and the step back 3. That’s nothing new. The shots are now falling. Like I said, Okoro offensive bag is bare. I’ve been calling Okoro a 2 since week 1. He’s been showing guard skills otherwise I would’ve never stated it.

ETA: I’ve been calling for Okoro to be involved in the PnR for how long now? And Okoro been a good passer. He pass up open shots left and right.

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I read the bolded and immediately my mind went to this:


Also, I suppose the above gif also applies to my entire post, but here we are anyway

Cavatt said:

Look at the minutes Toppin got this year and Okoro. Toppin never gets those minutes back and he will be 23 while Okoro is 20 and led the team in minutes. He went from a guy afraid to shoot, to hitting clutch 3s to keep it close and making and 1s to take it to overtime.

He semi-credibly played secondary playmaker last night and it was impressive.

Cavs are serious about player development, and that means playing rookies minutes they don't deserve.

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I mean..........there's some reason beyond player development.

one team is trying to go places this year and has Julius Randle playing the best ball of his life at that position and the Cavs have Cedi Osman and are gonna win 20 games. So..yea.

Cavatt said:

Look at the minutes Toppin got this year and Okoro. Toppin never gets those minutes back and he will be 23 while Okoro is 20 and led the team in minutes. He went from a guy afraid to shoot, to hitting clutch 3s to keep it close and making and 1s to take it to overtime.

He semi-credibly played secondary playmaker last night and it was impressive.

Cavs are serious about player development, and that means playing rookies minutes they don't deserve.

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Yes...although one big factor with Okoro is that his defense meant we can keep him on the court while he learns without it hurting us too badly. But a guy like Toppin, who is a huge negative on the defensive end, absolutely kills you if he's struggling on offense as well.

red. said:

Really? He’s taking the same shots and making them now. Either an inside layup/dunk or a 3. No floater or midrange. Bag looks the same to me.

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Yes because as we've seen from Sexton and Garland floaters and mid-range shots are the keys to a successful NBA offense in today's game..................

Back to Okoro.

One, I like how he plays w/o Osman in the game. I could easily so him being a guy in a 2nd unit dominating the ball more.

Two, if they go with Garland and Okoro next season to start, then Garland has to start running. Sexton pushing the ball gets Okoro out into the open court where he excels. And Okoro is a guy who seems to like to run too.

I okoro is in the kind of condition he wants to play 40 minutes you let him do that.. he is taking it in stride.. that vectors toward a player you can rely on in the clutch..

He's 4th in rookie scoring for the month. He just had a 15 6 and 6 game. That was cool to see. Playing secondary playmaker looks like something he can work on.

CleveRocks said:

Hard to understand how a poster can be negative about IO in this game.. He pretty much delivered offensively in every way. The drive and dish assist to Allen, the drive and kick to Sexton, splitting two bigs to the hoop, straight up post bully on a smaller player, screen step back three, straight up quick release guy in his face three, shoulder drive LeBron style in traffic 2.. And this a guy who has played pretty much every game this year as a defensive plus, and playing a game that doesn't matter..

So is it enough to make the Allstar team? No... Is it enough for a cavs fan to celebrate? Yeah, it is..

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I’m not celebrating anything! So he scored 30 points! Hell Danny Ferry scored 32 points for the Cavs in a game....where did his career end up. Nothing more than a role player

I think it's weird to see so many takes about what he's added to his game over the season when, to my eyes, he looks like he's playing EXACTLY the same way that he played during those preseason games when he had me and everybody else creaming our jeans about how good he looked.

He's the perfect illustration of such a ridiculously simple phenomenon--basketball players look a lot better when their shots are falling. For Okoro in particular, though, we've also seen too much basketball where the shots were neither falling or even flying at all as he stood in timeout in the corner doing nothing possession after possession, which reflects worse on the coach and scheme the more Okoro shows he's capable of doing.

Rich said:

Yes because as we've seen from Sexton and Garland floaters and mid-range shots are the keys to a successful NBA offense in today's game..................

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They are the worst 3-point shooting team in the league so firing up scads of 3's isn't going to work. Taking the ball into the paint for a high percentage floater or an even higher percentage lob is better than chucking up contested 3's that have about a 20% chance of going in.

When they get their 3-point shooters back (Garland, Prince, Nance) and draft another one then we'll see a more balanced offense.

narbar32 said:

I think it's weird to see so many takes about what he's added to his game over the season when, to my eyes, he looks like he's playing EXACTLY the same way that he played during those preseason games when he had me and everybody else creaming our jeans about how good he looked.

He's the perfect illustration of such a ridiculously simple phenomenon--basketball players look a lot better when their shots are falling. For Okoro in particular, though, we've also seen too much basketball where the shots were neither falling or even flying at all as he stood in timeout in the corner doing nothing possession after possession, which reflects worse on the coach and scheme the more Okoro shows he's capable of doing.

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I think people were worried he was too tentative, which yeah he was. It was a confidence mentality thing

narbar32 said:

For Okoro in particular, though, we've also seen too much basketball where the shots were neither falling or even flying at all as he stood in timeout in the corner doing nothing possession after possession, which reflects worse on the coach and scheme the more Okoro shows he's capable of doing.

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I agree with this 100%

I also cant shake the parallels between how good he looked for Bruce Pearl and then when he first got here before our coaching/scheme threw him off AND how good Jarrett Allen looked for Atkinson and prior to here, and then in his first weeks here before he did the same thing Okoro did midseason.

I simply dont believe Allen would be looking this lost and unsure of himself, save the concussion, if he knew his role, believed in it and wasn't focused on thinking through the game.

Basically, these guys look better and play with confidence and then as they adjust to and are assimilated into our coaching/schemes they look lost and unsure of themselves suddenly.

If you are thinking on the court, instead of reacting/playing with full confidence, you are at a disadvantage. Good coaching and scheme fixes overthinking by having clear defined roles for guys in a system that they can excel at without having to overthink.

I dont believe we have that.