Let it all out. The Cavaliers Rant Thread

RchfldCavRaised said:

That wasn't luck, that was having two organization ahead of him who didn't have the foresight or patience to draft the best player with their pick.

It was clear Embiid was a generational talent.

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Still luck. If embiid wasn't hurt he gets drafted.

Then what. Then where does all the tanking lead?

Embiid being an injury concern was VERY lucky.


Hinkie has the mythos around him while winning no games. I just find it crazy how much love he gets.

And here's the other point: there's just as many examples of teams in bad markets being on the treadmill of mediocrity for years and years and getting off WITHOUT years and years of tanking.

Milwaukee comes to mind. Notorious for always trying to get the 8th seed no matter what. Toronto notorious for the same thing.


There are other ways than just that one. And those ways involve playing some .500 ball and making the playoffs here and there in the meantime.

Ultimately, my point isn't that tanking can't work. My point is that it's no guarantee, and this idea that's it's the only way isn't correct. Nor is there ample evidence that it's the best way, either.

Take that MCW trade, for instance. He was traded to....Milwaukee. Honestly, good trade for Philly. MCW had won ROY and as such was gonna be subject to get the super-duper rookie max, I do believe. ANd he was showing absolutely no signs of improving his shooting and was the worst shooter in the NBA that 2nd year.

But..here we are, 5 years or so removed and.................you'd rather have Milwaukee's roster. Today, next year, and 5 years from now. So Philly tanked, traded for more draft picks. Milwaukee didn't, kept trying to win. ANd here we are, and Milwaukee has been the better team the last three years, has made it further in the post-season, and has the better player.


Which goes to my point: There's more than 1 way to skin a cat.


BTW the irony of trading away MCW is they've since maxed out the upgraded version of him. Another big point who is an even worse shooter from range, but he actually knows this and so doesn't hurt his team by shooting.

Definitely wouldn't keep referring to Ben Simmons as a "generational talent" though.

So should we just assume Sexton goes for 50 points tonight and beat the Nets? Haha.

buzzdog said:

In a roundabout way you finally got to my basic point.

The NBA has intentionally diluted the benefits of "tanking" to the point where the Cavs front office obviously doesn't care about whether they get the 66% chance or the 36% chance, otherwise they would have found a way to make sure we didn't stumble into the win over Boston.

What are the exact reasons for that, IDK. Maybe they're comfortable with the prospect that none of the lottery odds give you an absolute guarantee. Maybe they're comfortable with 3 or 4 players in this draft so they know they'll end up with one of them regardless of the reduction in lottery odds. Maybe they're more fearful of any accusations of tampering to tank than they are fearful of getting their 2nd or 3rd choice between their top 5 players on the board. Maybe there's other reasons that I can't even imagine.

But the reality is, the Cavs didn't do anything to intervene to ensure they got every possible ping pong ball. If it was so critical, and if it was such a lock towards improving the near term future of the franchise, wouldn't they have taken some steps to make sure we lost the last 3 games? I can only conclude that in their evaluation of the whole situation it simply doesn't make enough of a difference for them to intervene.

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If,you want to blame someone blame the 76ers for tanking for five straight years..They're the reason,why the lottery rules changed,a few years ago.


Two,how are you going to tell a bunch of players to stop competing despite not going to the playoffs, especially Sexton and Okoro. On top of that, about half of the team is injured.

Blazie said:

It's really not complicated: People are dismissing the odds because the draft lottery only gives you a *chance at a chance* for that big time guy. You still have to draft the right player, and develop him right, keep him healthy and on the court, keep him from throwing soup at people, etc.

The only time the lottery is a true lottery is if the top guy is named LeBron. Show me the LeBron caliber player of this draft, and I'll agree that tanking is the best move.

But you can't do that. In fact, by most accounts, the top 5 or so guys are all equally as good, which logically speaks against worrying about lottery odds since the 1st pick has very similar value to the 5th or 6th picks.

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I'm not even talking about the chance for #1 pick when I'm talking about odds. #1 is most definitely a crapshoot.

But if there are really 5 guys who are relatively equal at the top of the draft, that just speaks MORE to how significant the odds are.

If we finish with the 3rd best odds we have a 67% chance of picking in top 5.

4th - 55%
5th - 47%
6th - 37%

I view this season as a fail. Didn't improve much at all. If they wanted to part ways with Koby I would be fine with it

cabs said:

I view this season as a fail. Didn't improve much at all. If they wanted to part ways with Koby I would be fine with it

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And Bickerstaff.

cabs said:

I view this season as a fail. Didn't improve much at all. If they wanted to part ways with Koby I would be fine with it

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I don't understand, why everyone wants Koby gone. He hit on Sexton, Garland and Okoro yet yall want him gone.. Yall act like, he's been drafting Kevin Knox the last three years...

ansatsusha80 said:

I don't understand, why everyone wants Koby gone. He hit on Sexton, Garland and Okoro yet yall want him gone.. Yall act like, he's been drafting Kevin Knox the last three years...

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team building/understanding current NBA is poor in my opinion.

ansatsusha80 said:

I don't understand, why everyone wants Koby gone. He hit on Sexton, Garland and Okoro yet yall want him gone.. Yall act like, he's been drafting Kevin Knox the last three years...

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The Love extension is a huge blunder.
Cedi extension is looking pretty bad now too.
Drafting is decent.

WorldFreeB said:

The Love extension is a huge blunder.
Cedi extension is looking pretty bad now too.
Drafting is decent.

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The real blunder was not getting out from under it when they had the chance.

cabs said:

team building/understanding current NBA is poor in my opinion.

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He did draft an elite scorer, elite playmaker,KPJ and Windler(pending right now). Traded for a young center that can improve his range.And,probably found players in Hartenstein, Wade and Stevens


All,he needs to do is get veteran backup point guard that's a playmaker and can score.

WorldFreeB said:

The Love extension is a huge blunder.
Cedi extension is looking pretty bad now too.
Drafting is decent.

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Like,I keep saying the owner had the final say to re-sign Love..He could have refused anytime...

Blazie said:

The real blunder was not getting out from under it when they had the chance.

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So,you're saying we should cough up a first round pick just to get rid of Love makes sense to me.

ansatsusha80 said:

So,you're saying we should cough up a first round pick just to get rid of Love makes sense to me.

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I'm saying nothing even close to that.

Blazie said:

I'm saying nothing even close to that.

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Yep, not immediately committing to a rebuild has cost us a few seasons.
But it looks as though we've managed to achieve the worst-case scenario, which is nice.

ansatsusha80 said:

I don't understand, why everyone wants Koby gone. He hit on Sexton, Garland and Okoro yet yall want him gone.. Yall act like, he's been drafting Kevin Knox the last three years...

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That's great, but when it comes to managing people, he's been a massive failure in my opinion.

It's a difficult situation all the way around because acquiring talent is obviously very important.

However, the culture in this organization has been questioned, called out publicly, or resulted in embarrassing, publicized incidents quite a few times since he took over:

2018 locker room, Wade ripping the team culture after being traded, etc.

2019 with the Lue clusterfuck, Larry Drew's public comments, the vets vs young guys saga, JR the Soup Nazi...

2020 with the Belein embarrassment.

2021 with Drummond, KPJ, and Love.

Somewhere in all of that is the Kevin Love tirade in Koby's office.

When you're the guy on top of the organization where all of this shit is happening, that's a poor pattern.

Yes, he's drafted well. Yes, I'd argue he's acquire quality talent by other means. This isn't NBA 2k though and he's come up short in all the other areas of leading an organization.