Let it all out. The Cavaliers Rant Thread

[kidduck]

Cavs are 1-9 over the last 10 games.

That equals the worst record during that stretch, ties with OKC and the Raptors.

Orlando and OKC are the only teams the Cavs can catch up with for the lottery. Magic
play Philly and Thunder play Jazz. I doubt any upsets.

 

[cavsLTU]

wow a professional basketball team won one game in 13 tries, they really dont know how to tank. Such a clueless organization from top to bottom.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

The way the balls drop will have a big impact on whether GMs follow Presti's lead from this last 2 seasons.

OKC has been aggressive since last summer in following Hinkies model irregardless of the adjusted lottery.

Hinkie was willing to not only wait 3 years until he had two guys who he felt were generational talents, but he was willing to press reset on a ROY and start anew when it was clear that ROY was more a product of a lack of talent on the team than a real generational guy. He was right. Imagine if Philly had maxed out MCW.

What happens with OKC in this draft lottery will impact alot in this copycat league.

 

[Rich]

I think Embiid being injured had as much to do with how long Philly waited as anything HInkie wanted.

Had Embiid played right away, they'd have been too good to tank.

The other thing there too is Hinkie got fired for doing that. He was never able to see the fruits of his labor.

So even if that was the "right" move, why would a GM do that again?

 

[foucault87]

I think Embiid being injured had as much to do with how long Philly waited as anything HInkie wanted.

Had Embiid played right away, they'd have been too good to tank.

The other thing there too is Hinkie got fired for doing that. He was never able to see the fruits of his labor.

So even if that was the "right" move, why would a GM do that again?

He got fired because Adam silver had to stick his nose in it and get his stooge colaneglo in there . Hinkie got screwed.

 

[Rich]

He got fired because Adam silver had to stick his nose in it and get his stooge colaneglo in there . Hinkie got screwed.

But my point is who is going to go that route when those are the results?

Hinkie had this view that if he had to wait year after year after year to find his star players he'd wait and keep tanking.

But that's just not something terribly sustainable. It is a business, and putting out a terrible product year after year doesn't work. Especially intentionally so. You actually do, at some point, need people to watch the games, buy your merch, and buy the tickets.

So no owner is just gonna let that happen for an extremely long period of time.

Imagine if Embiid hadn't been hurt in Kansas and been drafted 1st, right? THEN where in the world would the Sixers be? Still telling people to trust the process??

I've never been a fan of what Hinkie did. Just trading for assets is a pretty simple and easy thing to accomplish. Building a team that can win is quite a bit harder.

And he absolutely lucked into Embiid. If that's the "strategy" to winning, then count me out. Because if he ends up taking either Wiggins or Parker, the entire thing blows up in his face.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

He drafted MCW and decided to trade him before he got lucky that two orgs ahead of him passed on a generational talent in Embiid that they just had to wait a year for. Same thing happened with Simmons, he sat his first year just like Embiid.

If a GM can't sell the owner on a vision that requires patience to acquire the best talent possible for championship level success (like Presti is doing with the notoriously cheap Clay Bennett right now) then that GM shouldn't be in charge of the program.

It's crazy that I find myself advocating for this, as I'm all about developing and nurturing a culture and building something sustainable, but the truth of the matter is this league is just not built for that with the salary cap, the regional/geographical advantages some cities have and then the state by state tax variables.

It's simply not a even playing field Rich.

I can't say I was a fan of Hinkie and the process either until I read this book just a few months ago that really takes you behind the scenes of his whole process, the Josh Harris ownership groups engagement/involvement with him, and how it was all undermined and nearly sabotaged by a meddling Silver and the Colangelos.

The biggest takeaway from that book is how revolutionary Hinkies thinking and approach to setting Philly up to not just be competitive, but ultimately be contenders after 10 years of being stuck on the treadmill of mediocrity that they were on (Jrue Holiday, Igoudala, Thaddeus Young and the Ghost of Andrew Bynum was what he inherited btw) before he started his process. He found the right developmental coach willing to roll up his sleeves, got ownership onboard and had their buy-in and ultimately, left them with 2 franchise players and more bullets in the chamber to build around them with (if he was never fired, they would have had Embiid, Simmons and Tatum probably).

Ultimately, for the landscape of the current NBA, it worked. Silver be damned.

I like @Derek recommendation for fixing the broken landscape of the NBA he posted in another thread. But until then or until something is negotiated in the next CBA to remedy it, it looks to be a "haves and haves not" league of championship level talent colluding to win rings in major cities.

 

[MirORich]

Not really relative to the overall gist of the conversation, but in terms of Embiid being a generational talent, while that is no doubt true, he has played in less than 50% of the games possible since he was drafted (260 out of 548)

Including two entire missed seasons at the beginning of his career(not one)

Now, as long as he continues relatively healthy and available in the playoffs each year, that current games played rate is irrelevant, but to date PHI has gotten less than 50% games played and nothing further then the 2nd round with that generational talent.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

And he absolutely lucked into Embiid. If that's the "strategy" to winning, then count me out. Because if he ends up taking either Wiggins or Parker, the entire thing blows up in his face.

That wasn't luck, that was having two organization ahead of him who didn't have the foresight or patience to draft the best player with their pick.

It was clear Embiid was a generational talent.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Not really relative to the overall gist of the conversation, but in terms of Embiid being a generational talent, while that is no doubt true, he has played in less than 50% of the games possible since he was drafted (260 out of 548)

Including two entire missed seasons at the beginning of his career(not one)

Now, as long as he continues relatively healthy and available in the playoffs each year, that current games played rate is irrelevant, but to date PHI has gotten less than 50% games played and nothing further then the 2nd round with that generational talent.

I'm here for a good time my brotha, not a long one

He's the other guy in a two man race for MVP this season. I'll take that.

 

[MirORich]

That wasn't luck, that was having two organization ahead of him who didn't have the foresight or patience to draft the best player with their pick.

It was clear Embiid was a generational talent.

So are you suggesting that in 2014, the Cavs, at that already behind the scenes very confident that LeBron was coming back, should have drafted a guy who couldn’t play basketball for the first two seasons after his draft? I just don’t see how that would have worked out and it certainly would have made the path to a championship much harder. Not too mention, he likely would have been dealt on LeBrons orders anyways

I'm here for a good time my brotha, not a long one

He's the other guy in a two man race for MVP this season. I'll take that.

Philly is far batter with Embiid than I’d they had taken Parker, for sure. I don’t disagree with that. Just always do a double take every time I check his stats page and see that he’s still only played the equivalent to 3.25 NBA seasons worth of games.

I don’t believe the Cavs were in a position to take him, with LeBron only doing the one and two year deals. He missed two entire seasons.

The team that deserves the most flak though is Milwaukee. They could have waited two year while Giannis continued to develop and then had Giannis and Embiid.

Instead they took a guy who peaked in HS

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Yes. He was the BPA.

GM LeBron saved us from a huge mistake there.

But as you said, that's off topic

 

[OptimusPrime]

I wanted Embiid no matter what that meant for a Kevin Love trade or what LeBron felt about it for that matter.

Hell, even if that means LeBron never comes back, would they have been able to keep Irving without James here? Because a team with Irving, Embiid, and a supporting cast would be contending for championships right now.

 

[Ohioplayer00]

I wanted Embiid no matter what that meant for a Kevin Love trade or what LeBron felt about it for that matter.

Hell, even if that means LeBron never comes back, would they have been able to keep Irving without James here? Because a team with Irving, Embiid, and a supporting cast would be contending for championships right now.

Nope because Cryie still would have left by now because that’s his personality! He has to be THE BATMAN and the way Embid has grown as a player Cryie would have ended up in the Robin role either way.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Embiid clearly was the most talented guy in that draft, but him going 3rd was all about the medicals. GM's aren't doctors, and have to go with what they are told by their medical staff.