Let it all out. The Cavaliers Rant Thread

[Derek]

That's great, but when it comes to managing people, he's been a massive failure in my opinion.

It's a difficult situation all the way around because acquiring talent is obviously very important.

However, the culture in this organization has been questioned, called out publicly, or resulted in embarrassing, publicized incidents quite a few times since he took over:

2018 locker room, Wade ripping the team culture after being traded, etc.

2019 with the Lue clusterfuck, Larry Drew's public comments, the vets vs young guys saga, JR the Soup Nazi...

2020 with the Belein embarrassment.

2021 with Drummond, KPJ, and Love.

Somewhere in all of that is the Kevin Love tirade in Koby's office.

When you're the guy on top of the organization where all of this shit is happening, that's a poor pattern.

Yes, he's drafted well. Yes, I'd argue he's acquire quality talent by other means. This isn't NBA 2k though and he's come up short in all the other areas of leading an organization.

When it comes down to it, we have the bleakest looking future of any team in the NBA.

Last off-season people tried to tell me that the Hornets and Knicks were worse off than us. Seriously, there's nobody in a worse spot than us. Maybe a couple of teams in a similar spot, but nobody worse.

It's not as if Altman wasn't given time. He's just failed to build anything resembling a competitive team.

 

[ytowncavs]

My end of the year rant.
The Cavs have had alot of bad teams, but i still made time to watch every game. But i gave up on this team, i couldn't stand looking at a gutless K. Love. He missed 50 games and had the audacity to come back and whine because of their record.
And the NBA as a whole is just not as fun anymore. The best players go to 4 teams, and then they get the best of the litter when teams dump players.
I hope by some miracle we have a decent offseason, don't draft another midget, and my interest level come back. I preferred reading these comments than watching the games.

 

[Cassity14]

When it comes down to it, we have the bleakest looking future of any team in the NBA.

Last off-season people tried to tell me that the Hornets and Knicks were worse off than us. Seriously, there's nobody in a worse spot than us. Maybe a couple of teams in a similar spot, but nobody worse.

It's not as if Altman wasn't given time. He's just failed to build anything resembling a competitive team.

I’ll start by admitting I haven’t followed the NBA in recent years nearly as closely as I did the 10 or so before that, so I’m not as in tune with every teams future and roster as I used to be.

That said, I think the Cavs are better off than most do. I think they’re 1 blue chipper away from really having something going into the near future. Yes, I recognize blue chips in the nba are really difficult to get.

This lotto and draft are pivotal for me, so much so that one could argue Koby keeping his job solely so he and the scouting department are in place to pick in this draft.

Sexton, Garland, and Allen are legitimate NBA pieces in my opinion. Sexton making an all-star game is a matter of when, not if, and I’m personally higher on Garland going forward anyway.

Okoro could go either way, but I’m optimistic he at least becomes a rotational piece on a good team, maybe more. What kind of improvement we see from him this off-season will determine where I land on viewing him long term.


The Cavs are in position to land a big time talent this year, keep their young core intact (or trade for fit), abs potentially land a tier 2 or tier 3 FA when Love and Cedi come off the books.

 

[foucault87]

I feel like we are poorly positioned but I wouldn't say the worst. Is JBB not the greatest coach? Sure, but he isn't Luke Walton. Koby is at best an average GM, but that means he isn't a horrible one...replacement level you could say. Our young core has some really promising guys (Sexland, Okoro, Allen) but no blue chippers. It is a solid roster that just needs an ordering principle.

When it comes down to it, I think we will always be solidly positioned as long as Gilbert is owner because he is willing to spend which is half the battle. He is meddlesome but not to the point where he will arbitrarily draft players way above their position (Vivek Ranadive). Id like him to hire an elite basketball culture setter and stay out of it, but that probably wont happen. Either way, he isnt Tillman and thats all that matters. Worst owner since Donald Sterling.

 

[Ozone]

I think the draft position makes or breaks the back of this front office not sure it matters who they draft either as long as it is somebody in the top 4 and somebody supposed to be in the top 4

 

[cabs]

He did draft an elite scorer, elite playmaker,KPJ and Windler(pending right now). Traded for a young center that can improve his range.And,probably found players in Hartenstein, Wade and Stevens


All,he needs to do is get veteran backup point guard that's a playmaker and can score.




Like,I keep saying the owner had the final say to re-sign Love..He could have refused anytime...





So,you're saying we should cough up a first round pick just to get rid of Love makes sense to me.

Hoarding small guards and centers in a wing driven league.
We missed the play ins in the east by 11 games, the whole agenda in the off season was how we wanted to at least compete for those.
Our average result was a 9point loss, do you really have any confidence in him building a competitive team. We finished with the same record as OKC who tried as hard they could to tank from the very start of the season.

 

[Nphan]

team building/understanding current NBA is poor in my opinion.

This is true. Koby talks about culture but his vision has not materialize and most likely never will until a true culture builder is hired. Also, he's always behind with what the other GMs want. He take risk like traded for bloats like Drummond but never get anything for these guys. Another example is JR and many others. He's okay at drafting so far but he's in love with small players in a league dominated by wings.

 

[Ozone]

This is true. Koby talks about culture but his vision has not materialize and most likely never will until a true culture builder is hired. Also, he's always behind with what the other GMs want. He take risk like traded for bloats like Drummond but never get anything for these guys. Another example is JR and many others. He's okay at drafting so far but he's in love with small players in a league dominated by wings.

sometimes I think these GMs just trade away bad locker room vets like Knight in these deals like the Drummond one and nothing more matters too them

 

[ryanf]

Hoarding small guards and centers in a wing driven league.
We missed the play ins in the east by 11 games, the whole agenda in the off season was how we wanted to at least compete for those.
Our average result was a 9point loss, do you really have any confidence in him building a competitive team. We finished with the same record as OKC who tried as hard they could to tank from the very start of the season.

more like it is only the guards and centers that panned out. kpj, windler and cedi were all disasters, who would have thought we go 0 out of 3 on those prospects? even the veterans nance and prince were lost to injuries. of the 6 players who can play wing, only okoro was healthy enough (and still with the team) to complete a season.

 

[cabs]

more like it is only the guards and centers that panned out. kpj, windler and cedi were all disasters, who would have thought we go 0 out of 3 on those prospects? even the veterans nance and prince were lost to injuries. of the 6 players who can play wing, only okoro was healthy enough (and still with the team) to complete a season.

Kevin Porter had off court issues all off season
Windler didnt play his rookie season so surely some question marks there
Cedi was looking very meh last season and yes plummeted since

Who did we bring in off season? 6'5 dotson, 6'5 Okoro, a center in Bolden, Delly brought back, a center in McGee and then lamar stevens finally a wing with length albeit undrafted on a two-way.

During the season we traded for a center, a wing in Prince, another center, added 2 more bigs in Kabengele and Varejao and also signed an array of 6'2 and under guards which you could argue was a need with delly out but most were scoring guards rather than playmakers.

I just think the entire make up of the roster is wrong and he has really undervalued long wings

 

[Simmy]

You have to feel like the issue with Koby (not unlike the issue of many GMs now in the rearview) is timing and misfortune. Koby has drafted reasonably well, given the draft capital and moronic new ping-pong system we've been subjected to.

Unfortunately, though, this has meant that we're going to have to start looking to "rebuild the rebuild," relative to our lottery position in the upcoming draft. If we luck into a top 3 pick, we're likely taking one of Cunningham, Suggs, or Green, effectively forcing Sexton or Garland or one of these top picks to the bench.

The only other attractive option at the top is Mobley, and with Jarrett Allen on board, we can forget that. We may be able to grab a Kuminga somewhere around 4-6, but what does that then mean for Okoro?

The issue is that we have absolutely no pillars. Post-LeBron 1.0 was brutal, but we had Kyrie. We knew he was the bonafide PG of the future. The Cavs have had 4 decent opportunities to draft (factoring in the KPJ pick), but have been forced to pick from a "good," not a "great" crop of talent.

It bothers me that this "version" of the Cavs may be nothing more than a blimp in history, until we're forced to tear it down and start again with very little gain.

 

[ajz20]

You have to feel like the issue with Koby (not unlike the issue of many GMs now in the rearview) is timing and misfortune. Koby has drafted reasonably well, given the draft capital and moronic new ping-pong system we've been subjected to.

Unfortunately, though, this has meant that we're going to have to start looking to "rebuild the rebuild," relative to our lottery position in the upcoming draft. If we luck into a top 3 pick, we're likely taking one of Cunningham, Suggs, or Green, effectively forcing Sexton or Garland or one of these top picks to the bench.

The only other attractive option at the top is Mobley, and with Jarrett Allen on board, we can forget that. We may be able to grab a Kuminga somewhere around 4-6, but what does that then mean for Okoro?

The issue is that we have absolutely no pillars. Post-LeBron 1.0 was brutal, but we had Kyrie. We knew he was the bonafide PG of the future. The Cavs have had 4 decent opportunities to draft (factoring in the KPJ pick), but have been forced to pick from a "good," not a "great" crop of talent.

It bothers me that this "version" of the Cavs may be nothing more than a blimp in history, until we're forced to tear it down and start again with very little gain.

How realistic was it that the team was going to build a contender on the first try after Lebron left with the new lottery system and a young unproven GM who was elevated without a proper GM search around the NBA?
Probably very minimal if you step back and remove your fandom. I stated 3 years ago it was most likely that the team would go through multiple rebuilds before it created a core good enough to be a top 3 to 4 team in the conference and get beyond round one, not the new play in. ( I think this play in tourney is just a way to convince fans there team made the playoffs when they really did not)

now that Gilbert seems more hands on again , it is worrisome as he has never valued stability in the front office. The only time he conducted a true GM search was Ferry.

Garland and Allen can def be something you build around, if you decide to trade Sexton and get value. But without a top tier all star wing in the modern nba as part of your core, you are likely just building a fun team to watch ( which is fine) vs a team actually capable of ever making a finals appearance or even conference finals appearance.

 

[Cassity14]

You have to feel like the issue with Koby (not unlike the issue of many GMs now in the rearview) is timing and misfortune. Koby has drafted reasonably well, given the draft capital and moronic new ping-pong system we've been subjected to.

Unfortunately, though, this has meant that we're going to have to start looking to "rebuild the rebuild," relative to our lottery position in the upcoming draft. If we luck into a top 3 pick, we're likely taking one of Cunningham, Suggs, or Green, effectively forcing Sexton or Garland or one of these top picks to the bench.

The only other attractive option at the top is Mobley, and with Jarrett Allen on board, we can forget that. We may be able to grab a Kuminga somewhere around 4-6, but what does that then mean for Okoro?

The issue is that we have absolutely no pillars. Post-LeBron 1.0 was brutal, but we had Kyrie. We knew he was the bonafide PG of the future. The Cavs have had 4 decent opportunities to draft (factoring in the KPJ pick), but have been forced to pick from a "good," not a "great" crop of talent.

It bothers me that this "version" of the Cavs may be nothing more than a blimp in history, until we're forced to tear it down and start again with very little gain.

I disagree that Mobley is ruled out because of Allen, but the Cavs are likely to take a guy like Suggs even with Sexton and Garland on board.

I think Mobley would play the 4 in his first season in the league any way. If he ends up developing into a stud center, you deal with that at the time.

 

[inliner311]

This is true. Koby talks about culture but his vision has not materialize and most likely never will until a true culture builder is hired. Also, he's always behind with what the other GMs want. He take risk like traded for bloats like Drummond but never get anything for these guys. Another example is JR and many others. He's okay at drafting so far but he's in love with small players in a league dominated by wings.

The lack of wing depth is concerning. Koby definitely isn't taking enough swings to get wing depth. He has been able to bring in bigs but now we are over saturated with them and it might be hard to convert some of that depth into other areas.

We haven't drafted a 2nd round pick since Cedi, yet we might of had the most future 2nd round picks of any team at one point. We need to take more swings at getting players. Drafting 3 players in the 2019 draft should have been the norm of this rebuild not the outlier year.

The hit rate for 2nd round picks isn't high but it surely higher than undrafted players, G-league call ups, and trying to revive other teams failures.

 

[Kouki]

The hit rate for 2nd round picks isn't high but it surely higher than undrafted players, G-league call ups, and trying to revive other teams failures.

Ya know, I actually wonder if it isn't the other way around. Lots of 2nd round picks are just a swing and a miss; players who stick around are needles in the haystack. Maybe it's just confirmation bias though because an undrafted player sticking around is a better story than a 2nd rounder sticking around...