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Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

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Vee-Rex said:
For me... I don't have lofty expectations for Baker. He's never gonna be Aaron Rodgers. He'll likely never be a top 5 QB in the league. He CAN be a top 10 QB but only if he's more consistent. I view him in the 12-14'ish range in a league with a ton of good QB talent, though he can perform top 10 pretty often himself.

Do I wish he could be better and more consistent? Absolutely. But there are ramifications for swinging for a new QB every time you discover your guy isn't Aaron Rodgers. And I can bring up some serious warts for just about any QB not named Rodgers/Mahomes. You don't always have to strike a 21 to win. I'm cool with my 17 when I know it's enough to win. If people wanna hit on a 17 then that's on them. There isn't a single team in this league I don't think we can't beat, and if we get games 1-3 Baker with games 3 and 4 defense when it matters, I believe we'll win it all.
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I think it is so easy to find a league average QB right now. And to me, 12-14 is pretty league average. Who is that? Carr? Ryan? etc.?

The Browns could go out and get a guy like that without expending a ton of assets IMO and could likely pay them far less than what they will pay Baker.

The argument for paying Baker has always been one rooted in improvement (to me) and he has really plateaued analytically over the last 1/3 of games he has played under Stefanski. He had the Pittsburgh game, where he played at an extremely high level but the rest of those games is a pretty big mixed bag.

The more concerning thing is just seeing bad habits crop up.......like dancing around under pressure, locking on to receivers, rushing throws, etc. Maybe it will be more of a yo-yo effect as he plays and grows but it is concerning what is popping up on tape again with him.

In an ideal world the shoulder is the problem but I think that is a bit of fools gold.......if I were making a guess, I think it is probably just that Baker is a great front running QB, who can play with a lead and make low stress throws (not easy but just ones where he doesn't HAVE to make it) but will not be a guy who ever consistently carries an offense when things go sideways or south.

I'm not overly negative on Baker.......he's fine.......but the decision point is coming for the franchise where I am (today), pretty uneasy about committing the next 4-5 years to him as the QB. I hope we get a bit more clarity during the next 6-8 games but it is just disconcerting seeing everything else come together and then feeling like QB is just going to be an anchor in way too may games than you would like.
 
Vee-Rex said:
Or, you know... maybe he just had a bad game? I thought he was fine weeks 1 and 2.

While the Bears game wasn't ~great~, it certainly wasn't terrible either. His only truly awful game this year was against the Vikings. One bad game, and we're talking about Keenum + trades for other QBs. :chuckle:
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He was great week 1. Things progressively have gotten worse since the injury against Houston.

There's a difference between a bad game and looking like you can't play the position at all.

That was the worst game of Mayfield's career IMO. He may have had worse games statistically during the Kitchens disaster season, but this one was the worst to me because everything was in place for him to succeed and he repeatedly failed.

The offensive line generally blocked fine. The running game was as effective as always. The backs and receivers got open in the passing game. Obviously the defense was dominant.

Baker just played horrifically and you can't really pin any blame on any other players on the team because everyone else was good. Everyone did their jobs at a high level... except him.

That said... I'm cautiously optimistic that his shoulder injury is the cause of all of this. Either the brace/the pain he's in when throwing is straight up causing a breakdown in his mechanics and accuracy. Or the fear of taking a hit on an injured shoulder is causing him to speed up his process. Either way, I think (hope?) these struggles are mostly injury related.
 
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Vee-Rex said:
No, I mean RIGHT NOW, would you restart the game? Everything else is equal - offense, defense, special teams, injuries, etc... the only difference is that Case Keenum is starting instead of Baker.

If you're sure Keenum would deliver big and give Baker a week's rest, then you would, right?
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Yes
 
Los216 said:
And? That's why Case Keenum is the backup. If Baker isn't healthy enough then go to Keenum.

Unless Baker's injury is not the issue............
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You sincerely think the shoulder is not the issue? Baker had a season's worth of misses yesterday. He truly looked like the worst QB in the league. Are you insinuating this is who he is?
 
CBBI said:
He was great week 1. He was

There's a difference between a bad game and looking like you can't play the position at all.

That was the worst game of Mayfield's career IMO. He may have had worse games statistically during the Kitchens disaster season, but this one was the worst to me because everything was in place for him to succeed and he repeatedly failed.

The offensive line generally blocked fine. The running game was as effective as always. The backs and receivers got open in the passing game. Obviously the defense was dominant.

Baker just played horrifically and you can't really pin any blame on any other players on the team because everyone else was good. Everyone did their jobs at a high level... except him.

That said... I'm cautiously optimistic that his shoulder injury is the cause of all of this. Either the brace/the pain he's in when throwing is straight up causing a breakdown in his mechanics and accuracy. Or the fear of taking a hit on an injured shoulder is causing him to speed up his process. Either way, I think (hope?) these struggles are mostly injury related.
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He had a horrible game but I think it's hyperbole to say he looked like he couldn't play the position at all. We've seen far worse performances that often leads to many points for the opposing team and would have undoubtedly led to a Vikings victory. To say he looked like he ~couldn't play the position at all~ is to pretend it was as bad as humanly possible.

Other than that, yes it was a game, which was my point.
 
Malacogary said:
You sincerely think the shoulder is not the issue? Baker had a season's worth of misses yesterday. He truly looked like the worst QB in the league. Are you insinuating this is who he is?
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Not an unfamiliar look from what we've seen through his first few seasons.

He's had bad games and consistent inaccuracy or lack of timing throughout chunks of games.

Its something he's struggled with repeatedly. While he seemed to turn a corner last season, regression is still possible without his non-throwing shoulder becoming an impediment.
 
Malacogary said:
You sincerely think the shoulder is not the issue? Baker had a season's worth of misses yesterday. He truly looked like the worst QB in the league. Are you insinuating this is who he is?
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Was Baker limited in practice at all last week? Did the team say that he was injured? If not then why are we creating the shoulder injury as an excuse?

I didn't see a single play yesterday that made me think that Baker's non throwing shoulder was bothering him. So why is that being used as an excuse for his poor performance?
 
Binkster said:
What does this even mean? Should’ve communicated the “type of ball” he wanted to throw? Does he not have the capability to adjust to a wide open receiver and throw it in stride (vs. a predetermined location that was TOWARD the defender)?
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Yeah, I didn't get this either. OBJ absolutely torched his defender...Baker should have thrown that ball about 20 yards further down field, with way more air under it, and OBJ walks in for a TD.
 
I'mWithDan said:
I think it is so easy to find a league average QB right now. And to me, 12-14 is pretty league average. Who is that? Carr? Ryan? etc.?

The Browns could go out and get a guy like that without expending a ton of assets IMO and could likely pay them far less than what they will pay Baker.

The argument for paying Baker has always been one rooted in improvement (to me) and he has really plateaued analytically over the last 1/3 of games he has played under Stefanski. He had the Pittsburgh game, where he played at an extremely high level but the rest of those games is a pretty big mixed bag.

The more concerning thing is just seeing bad habits crop up.......like dancing around under pressure, locking on to receivers, rushing throws, etc. Maybe it will be more of a yo-yo effect as he plays and grows but it is concerning what is popping up on tape again with him.

In an ideal world the shoulder is the problem but I think that is a bit of fools gold.......if I were making a guess, I think it is probably just that Baker is a great front running QB, who can play with a lead and make low stress throws (not easy but just ones where he doesn't HAVE to make it) but will not be a guy who ever consistently carries an offense when things go sideways or south.

I'm not overly negative on Baker.......he's fine.......but the decision point is coming for the franchise where I am (today), pretty uneasy about committing the next 4-5 years to him as the QB. I hope we get a bit more clarity during the next 6-8 games but it is just disconcerting seeing everything else come together and then feeling like QB is just going to be an anchor in way too may games than you would like.
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Carr is playing at a high level right now and Ryan is.. ugh.

I'm cool with committing to him for the next 5 years if he wanted to extend right now. The price is another matter, and if he wants a Josh Allen-like contract he'll have to play a lot better.
 
Vee-Rex said:
The fact that you would erase a W off the win column gave me everything I needed to know. I know not to further engage. :chuckle:
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Was Baker the reason we won that game yesterday?
 
Binkster said:
What does this even mean? Should’ve communicated the “type of ball” he wanted to throw? Does he not have the capability to adjust to a wide open receiver and throw it in stride (vs. a predetermined location that was TOWARD the defender)?
Click to expand...

The way I took it (and the way it looks after watching it back several times) was that Baker was planning to throw a back shoulder throw from the jump and Beckham didn't run a back shoulder route and Baker is doing his best to not publicly criticize Beckham for not running the route Baker expected him to run.

That said...

You'd hope that a professional QB when he sees his star WR get across the DB's face could improvise and just throw the go route instead. It seemed like Baker had enough time to make that adjustment as there was no pressure anywhere around Baker.

It's possible that Baker misread the safety and thought he was closer than he actually was and would have been able to make a play on the go route had he thrown it. A completed catch of any kind ends the game there, so Baker perhaps thought it was safer to throw back shoulder and he just wasn't on the same page as OBJ.

*Maybe* it's possible that the play call was a back shoulder and OBJ realizing he was about to burn the defender deep changed his route and went with the wide open go. It's impossible to say. The way Baker is wording it makes me think he expected OBJ to peel back for a back shoulder throw.
 
Vee-Rex said:
Carr is playing at a high level right now and Ryan is.. ugh.

I'm cool with committing to him for the next 5 years if he wanted to extend right now. The price is another matter, and if he wants a Josh Allen-like contract he'll have to play a lot better.
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As far as Baker's contract goes I got news for you. Baker Mayfield was the number 1 overall pick in his draft. he led his team to a playoff win on the road. I don't think that a bargain exist for his contract extension. If he's not playing good enough to warrant Josh Allen type money then it's probably not even worth extending him is it?
 
AZ_ said:
Not an unfamiliar look from what we've seen through his first few seasons.

He's had bad games and consistent inaccuracy or lack of timing throughout chunks of games.

Its something he's struggled with repeatedly. While he seemed to turn a corner last season, regression is still possible without his non-throwing shoulder becoming an impediment.
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Yes. This seems to be cast aside here.

I intimated that the "highlight" reel of Baker missing easy NFL throws would be pretty jarring to watch.

What has he missed this season already? That could be defined as "easy" TD's?

I honestly can think of 6-7 off the top of my head. There were 3 yesterday alone that aren't even debatable and a 4th depending on your criteria.

Largely, one of Mayfield's biggest issues has been that he will hit stretches where he looks like a closer who has no idea where his fastball is going.

Maybe the shoulder is making that worse......but maybe that is just who he is......a really streaky thrower, especially under even a minute amount of pressure.

It is a luxury to have a team be 3-1 with a QB that has generally been as bad as he has been.

Mayfield's 2021 Ranks

QBR - 26th
RTG - 23rd
TD's - 31st

The names in front of him in QBR / RTG are vomit inducing. He just needs to be a lot better.

His QBR is only a few points better than Big Ben's, who looks like a corpse.
 
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