Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

2 For The Brew said:

Dumb tweet. However, after reading your reply my verdict is that John has the better case.

Tough opponent on the road, a plethora of injuries concentrated at OT and CB, adverse officiating and we lost the lead very late in the game. Very disappointing but hardly reason to tar and feather Mayfield (or Stefanski). Think it’s a bit silly to criticize Baker because he’s not as good as Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers etc. Certainly if we could sign someone better I’d support that; until then, don’t really see the point of trashing him. The man did lead the offense to 500 yards & 42 points with no turnovers, hardly a bad day at the office.

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This is not seeing the forest through the trees IMO. It goes beyond one game. Gotta look at things more broadly that than just what happened yesterday.

Besides, I'm not trashing Baker Mayfield. I think he's a solid middle of the pack QB. Better than perhaps half the guys taking the snaps in the league today. He's a guy who at times can play like a top tier QB, but also at times play like a bottom tier QB.

I just don't think that level of QB play is good enough to win the Super Bowl (or even get there candidly) and that makes me particularly frustrated because I genuinely think everything else is in place for the Browns to win at the highest levels.

Vee-Rex said:

Yeah, Nobody John wins that one @CBBI

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Think bigger than what happened yesterday.

Baker being the best QB the Browns have had in 3 decades is fine and true.

But it doesn't mean he's good enough to take them to the Super Bowl and win it. That's my issue. And I absolutely do not think that makes me or anyone else who believes the same thing ungrateful. Why should I be happy that my team almost certainly can't win it all with the QB they have? Because the team used to suck? That doesn't work for me.

I'm glad the Browns are better than they were, but expectations matter a lot and I just don't think they're gonna get to the place we all want them to get and I think QB play is a significant factor in that.

CBBI said:

This is not seeing the forest through the trees IMO. It goes beyond one game. Gotta look at things more broadly that than just what happened yesterday.

Besides, I'm not trashing Baker Mayfield. I think he's a solid middle of the pack QB. Better than perhaps half the guys taking the snaps in the league today. He's a guy who at times can play like a top tier QB, but also at times play like a bottom tier QB.

I just don't think that level of QB play is good enough to win the Super Bowl (or even get there candidly) and that makes me particularly frustrated because I genuinely think everything else is in place for the Browns to win at the highest levels.

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It’s obviously easier to win a Super Bowl if you have Brady, Montana, Mahomes, Elway, Aikman, Young, Starr, Bradshaw (puke), etc.

Problem is like grabbing that #1 transcendental player in the NBA - everybody wants those guys.

If there’s a viable path to get a beast at QB I’m all for it. In the most likely case there isn’t I just think there’s no point to complaining our guy isn’t one of those guys.

I do think we could win with Baker as QBs no better than him have won it all.

My main concern about Baker is that he hasn’t shown he can come through late in games when you’re behind and ONLY your QB can bring you back. In my opinion that’s the most important thing any team needs from a QB. Brian Sipe was no better than Baker in many respects BUT he did have that one quality. I think it was unrealistic to expect Baker to convert late yesterday with three OT out BUT he’s going to need to convert those at some point.

It has to be Stefanski’s #1 concern and it will determine Mayfield‘s ultimate fate with the Browns and in general if he doesn’t stay here.

CBBI said:

Think bigger than what happened yesterday.

Baker being the best QB the Browns have had in 3 decades is fine and true.

But it doesn't mean he's good enough to take them to the Super Bowl and win it. That's my issue. And I absolutely do not think that makes me or anyone else who believes the same thing ungrateful. Why should I be happy that my team almost certainly can't win it all with the QB they have? Because the team used to suck? That doesn't work for me.

I'm glad the Browns are better than they were, but expectations matter a lot and I just don't think they're gonna get to the place we all want them to get and I think QB play is a significant factor in that.

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I was just joking about that random twitter dude. I prefer you over him.

I personally think Baker is good enough, but it's a lot deeper than that anyway. How many QBs have we seen never win a Super Bowl despite being "good enough"? It's a long list. Even all-time greats like Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees have only one super bowl victory. It's... hard to win. Even so, I believe the team as currently constructed, is capable of winning a Super Bowl assuming the defense doesn't give away games.

Both our losses this year could be blamed more on the defense than the offense. We average 28.5 ppg, which is 6th in the NFL. We're 5th in the NFL in yards per game. And while our passing yards are low, our passing attempts are just as low. Point is, the ~offense is good enough~ for a Super Bowl. That offense includes Baker.

No one is saying our offense (particularly our passing) can't get better. No one is saying Baker needs to be our QB for the next 15 years. No one is saying we'd turn down an elite QB in favor of Baker. What we're saying is... "Hey, Baker's not exactly the reason we're losing right now." If we fix why we're losing, is it possible we can win a Super Bowl with the current roster? I'd say so.

Vee-Rex said:

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2020 Lamar poop game and 2018 Raiders are the other two

Here's my 8 question Q&A about Baker Mayfield:

1. Is Baker a top 5 QB ? He can look like it on his good days, but overall, the answer is No. There are at least 5 QB's that are better than him.
2. Is he a bad QB? No, there are at least 10 teams that would gladly swap QB's with the Browns without thinking twice and another 10 that think long and hard about it.
3. Is Baker holding the team back? He wasn't in their two losses this year.
4. Can he win a superbowl? Sure. He just needs a little more help or a little more luck than the top QBs, and there isn't a team out there than wins the superbowl without at least a little luck, even the teams with the top QBs.
5. Whose fault is it, Bakers or OBJ's ? As long as they are both still working on making it work, I don't think it's anyone's fault. Things can change quickly.
6. Can the Browns get a better QB? Not at Baker's salary right now
7. So what about his contract? His contract is fine right now.
8. But he's going to be a free agent! That's a) not a question and b) like in forever. We will have flying cars and recievers will wear jet packs long before then.

CBBI said:

This is not seeing the forest through the trees IMO. It goes beyond one game. Gotta look at things more broadly that than just what happened yesterday.

Besides, I'm not trashing Baker Mayfield. I think he's a solid middle of the pack QB. Better than perhaps half the guys taking the snaps in the league today. He's a guy who at times can play like a top tier QB, but also at times play like a bottom tier QB.

I just don't think that level of QB play is good enough to win the Super Bowl (or even get there candidly) and that makes me particularly frustrated because I genuinely think everything else is in place for the Browns to win at the highest levels.

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Anything other than saying “it wasn’t Baker’s fault” seems to be trashing him

Baker is a fine QB if you want to be competitive and root for someone who is pretty likable.

But my problem with Mayfield is I’m still not convinced you can win a Super Bowl with a limited QB in modern football. And he has yet to really show he is not more than a limited QB that you scheme up and try to play ahead with.

People will probably say something something Trent Dilfer but football has changed so much even in the last 5 years. I just don’t see teams without dynamic QB play winning for the foreseeable future. The margin for error is just too small in a one and done playoff format.

Douglar said:

Here's my 8 question Q&A about Baker Mayfield:

1. Is Baker a top 5 QB ? He can look like it on his good days, but overall, the answer is No. There are at least 5 QB's that are better than him.
2. Is he a bad QB? No, there are at least 10 teams that would gladly swap QB's with the Browns without thinking twice.
3. Is Baker holding the team back? He wasn't in their two losses this year.
4. Can he win a superbowl? Sure. He just needs a little more help or a little more luck than the top QBs, and there isn't a team out there than wins the superbowl without at least a little luck, even the teams with the top QBs.
5. Whose fault is it, Bakers or OBJ's ? As long as they are both still working on making it work, I don't think it's anyopne's fault. Things can change quickly.
6. Can the Browns get a better QB? Not at Baker's salary right now
7. So what about is contract? His contract is fine right now.
8. But he's going to be a free agent! That's a) not a question and b) like in forever. We will have flying cars and recievers will wear jet packs long before then.

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I agree on all eight- great post.

Vee-Rex said:

I personally think Baker is good enough, but it's a lot deeper than that anyway. How many QBs have we seen never win a Super Bowl despite being "good enough"? It's a long list. Even all-time greats like Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees have only one super bowl victory. It's... hard to win. Even so, I believe the team as currently constructed, is capable of winning a Super Bowl assuming the defense doesn't give away games.

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There seems to be a group of you that is arguing in generalities and not specifics though.

Have plenty of good QB’s never won a super bowl? Sure. Now which ones had a good coach, a great line and a league best run game? Which QB’s with perfect offensive situations didn’t win one?

The problem is not that we are in year 1 or 2 of Baker and the roster needs work. The problem is we are in year 4 of Baker, we are in a position to win a Super Bowl and our QB is most definitely a weak link.

This isn’t some Baker specific thing, like I have a problem with him as a person, whatever. It is that he just is not playing good enough relative to the surrounding talent and coaching. That’s it. I’d be happy to watch him succeed, I just don’t think he has it at the NFL super bowl winning level and I don’t feel like wasting our roster window trying to convince ourselves that he does.

I'mWithDan said:

Anything other than saying “it wasn’t Baker’s fault” seems to be trashing him

Baker is a fine QB if you want to be competitive and root for someone who is pretty likable.

But my problem with Mayfield is I’m still not convinced you can win a Super Bowl with a limited QB in modern football. And he has yet to really show he is not more than a limited QB that you scheme up and try to play ahead with.

People will probably say something something Trent Dilfer but football has changed so much even in the last 5 years. I just don’t see teams without dynamic QB play winning for the foreseeable future. The margin for error is just too small in a one and done playoff format.

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Not at all. I think it's moreso the hyper-focus on Baker that feels unwarranted at this time.

Win or lose (Vikings/Chargers), bad or good performance (Vikings/Chargers), injury and all, doesn't matter.

I haven't seen any real attention towards the defensive performance from any of the people going hard at Baker about yesterday's game. We're definitely not winning a Super Bowl if our defense performs anything like that, let alone making the playoffs.

Douglar said:

The reason to aknowledge the one is because you wrote:



And it that case, the problem clearly was not with Baker connecting with the receiver. The problem was with the receiver.

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I showed two more examples of Odell being open and Baker opting to go elsewhere. Even after the drop Baker still hit him on that difficult sideline catch which was a much harder play to convert than the 2 yard drop.

So I'm asking you if that drop is supposed to justify the reason why they can't connect when he caught two more balls after the drop?

Vee-Rex said:

Not at all. I think it's moreso the hyper-focus on Baker that feels unwarranted at this time.

Win or lose (Vikings/Chargers), bad or good performance (Vikings/Chargers), injury and all, doesn't matter.

I haven't seen any real attention towards the defensive performance from any of the people going hard at Baker about yesterday's game. We're definitely not winning a Super Bowl if our defense performs anything like that, let alone making the playoffs.

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Joe Woods got trashed so hard that Myles Garrett had to do that shirtless presser where he challenged everyone to step up. the defense followed that up with back to back historic performances.

Yesterday the defense was down 7 players!!!!!!!

I think most people are more disappointed with the defense but understand that we were losing guys throughout the whole game.

I'mWithDan said:

This isn’t some Baker specific thing, like I have a problem with him as a person, whatever. It is that he just is not playing good enough relative to the surrounding talent and coaching. That’s it. I’d be happy to watch him succeed, I just don’t think he has it at the NFL super bowl winning level and I don’t feel like wasting our roster window trying to convince ourselves that he does.

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Our 2 losses so far were on Baker or something else? I thought he played plenty good enough yesterday. I also thought he played plenty good enough against the Chiefs week 1.

Vee-Rex said:

Not at all. I think it's moreso the hyper-focus on Baker that feels unwarranted at this time.

Win or lose (Vikings/Chargers), bad or good performance (Vikings/Chargers), injury and all, doesn't matter.

I haven't seen any real attention towards the defensive performance from any of the people going hard at Baker about yesterday's game. We're definitely not winning a Super Bowl if our defense performs anything like that, let alone making the playoffs.

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Additional defensive help is a lot easier to aquire than a QB. The reason it is the focus is that not having a true answer at QB is a perpetual problem that isn’t easy to fix.

A defense being bludgeoned to death by injuries, bad penalties or just a single bad game is far easier to course correct, no? To me, the defense has a variety of issues that are likely to be resolved with some injury luck and maybe a key cut or trade acquisition…..but prior to yesterday, I’m not sure how we can expect more than a top 3 DVOA start?

Hyper focus on the QB is a result of us losing a game any time our QB is forced to make a play. It is a recurring thing that should be concerning, given the aspirations of the team. The defense has shown some pretty bright flashes in key spots this year. Also some let downs…..but there is at least a hope of them being great. What bright flashes have we seen from our QB? What late throws has he made when he has needed them? When was the last time a made a big time throw late in a game?