2021-2022 Cavaliers General Discussion: Trade Deadline Edition

MirORich said:

Not really Cavs related but massive Derrick Williams vibes from Bagley and his career arc so far.

Sacramento could have had ANYONE in the 2018 draft over Bagley besides Ayton

Luka, Trae, SGA, Jaren Jackson, Sexton, MPJ, etc.

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I know Luka refused to talk to Sacramento predraft. Not sure if anyone else did. I also know lots of players refused to talk to Grizzlies. It was a weird draft.

And to be fair hindsight is 20/20 but they had just drafted Fox the year prior. Doubling down on another guard like SGA, Sexton or Trae didn't make much sense for them.

NMCav said:

I know Luka refused to talk to Sacramento predraft. Not sure if anyone else did. I also know lots of players refused to talk to Grizzlies. It was a weird draft.

And to be fair hindsight is 20/20 but they had just drafted Fox the year prior. Doubling down on another guard like SGA, Sexton or Trae didn't make much sense for them.

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All true,

I'm just saying, just as we look back in frustration of Sexton over SGA or MPJ(regardless of the circumstances) or Okoro over Haliburton, it's common amongst fanbases, especially the ones from recently bad teams, to have a lot of similar hindsight regrets and "if only's"

That said, anyone who didn't see Luka as a transcendent player who could fit/excel on any roster, regardless of who's already there, was just wrong wrong wrong.

Luka/Fox would have been a devastating backcourt

MirORich said:

All true,

I'm just saying, just as we look back in frustration of Sexton over SGA or MPJ(regardless of the circumstances) or Okoro over Haliburton, it's common amongst fanbases, especially the ones from recently bad teams, to have a lot of similar hindsight regrets and "if only's"

That said, anyone who didn't see Luka as a transcendent player who could fit/excel on any roster, regardless of who's already there, was just wrong wrong wrong.

Luka/Fox would have been a devastating backcourt

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I didn't say Luka wasn't a fit. But Luka was flat out refusing to go to Sacramento. Which is weird because just 2 years after Luka refused to go to Sacramento, Haliburton forced his way to Sacramento.

The difference between Sexton over SGA or MPJ vs Bagley over the field in 2018 is Sexton is still a top 5 or 6 player from the draft class. Bagley was picked 2nd is likely isn't a top 45 player from that draft.

Okoro over Haliburton among others is a different story however. I'll give Okoro another year but the early returns are not promising.

Not only was it terrible in hindsight but three Serbs (Igor, Divac, Peja) we’re involved with the Suns and Kings when they passed on Luka which dispels the euro bias angle.

I can see Mobley doing this in the future.

Now that the Cavs have a near future stud on the roster, I am more excited by
this season than any since Lebron went west.

DCTribefan said:

I can see Mobley doing this in the future.

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I love Mobley, but he plays nothing like Manu, but it was fun watching some Manu passes.

Is Manu a HOFer?

One thing I'm concerned about is defensive rebounding. Looking at the pre-season games it was obvious the Cavs were having a problem controlling the defensive glass. Those really long, skinny guys (Allen and Mobley) were getting pushed around a bit.

The first four games the Cavs allowed 13, 12, 13, and 14 offensive rebounds. Last year the team that allowed the most offensive rebounds per game gave up 11.2, so if the Cavs don't improve their offensive rebounding they will be worst in the league by a large margin.

However, a lot of guys played in those games that won't be playing this year, or at least won't be playing as many minutes. In the final pre-season game the Cavs started the jumbo lineup of Mobley, Allen, and Markkanen. With Sexton resting a shoulder injury they started last year's small forward, Isaac Okoro, at the 2. That group wasn't on the floor for long but the guys who played the most minutes off the bench were Stevens, Fall, Wade, and Valentine. IOW, they started big and stayed big. Stevens, Wade, and Fall combined for 20 rebounds.

The Cavs only allowed 8 offensive rebounds to the Pacers in that last game. The best team at preventing offensive rebounds last year allowed 8.0. So by going with the jumbo lineup the Cavs went from worst to first in controlling the defensive glass.

Obviously we're not going to see Fall, Wade, and Stevens combine for 71 minutes this year. If they keep Okoro at the 3 and start Garland and Sexton in the backcourt, I'm concerned about second chance points. I think they should just make Okoro a 2 once an for all and divvy up the small forward minutes between LM, Cedi, and Windler. That would improve the rebounding at two positions.

Interesting.

Lee said:

I love Mobley, but he plays nothing like Manu, but it was fun watching some Manu passes.

Is Manu a HOFer?

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If anyone's a lock, it's him.

You know what?

I'M FUCKING HYPED.

Heat Check said:

If anyone's a lock, it's him.

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Not sure he is a lock, a lock to me is Duncan, but Manu was a 6th man of the year, made 2 all NBA 3rd teams, 2 all star games and 4 rings. Was never the best player on any of the teams though, but he is very good. But 2 all star games doesnt make him a lock imo.

Shawn Marion has similar credentials minus 3 rings but made twice as many all star games and he is not in. Marion has better overall stats too.

Just saying I think he gets in, but to say he is a lock seems a bit exaggerated.

Someone pls talk me down off the ledge but I don't have a great feeling going into this season. My gut says they get off to a bad start. JBB is fired a quarter into the season. Okoro and Sexton likely get traded at some point for a lukewarm return. My feeling is JBB is the big Okoro supporter left in the building. Maybe Allen gets dealt too at some point after Jan 15th. Koby is likely gone next offseason which is a positive in my book. It eats at me the players they passed in the draft esp in 2018 and 2020. If they were going to draft a 6'-5" guy with the 5th pick they should've picked the one in Haliburton that had actual skills on both sides of the ball.

I do like the skill of Markannen, Garland, and esp Mobley who might be the only 2 way player but this is a man's league and not sure I see a beta (at least not yet) in that bunch. I guess it's ok if you look at the season as a developmental year especially for Evan Mobley but can they win more than 26-27 games this season? Outlook doubtful..

Lee said:

Not sure he is a lock, a lock to me is Duncan, but Manu was a 6th man of the year, made 2 all NBA 3rd teams, 2 all star games and 4 rings. Was never the best player on any of the teams though, but he is very good. But 2 all star games doesnt make him a lock imo.

Shawn Marion has similar credentials minus 3 rings but made twice as many all star games and he is not in. Marion has better overall stats too.

Just saying I think he gets in, but to say he is a lock seems a bit exaggerated.

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Basketball Hall of Fame takes into account all aspects of basketball, not just the NBA. Literally only been 2 players that have won a Euroleague title, an NBA Championship, and an Olympic Gold. Manu is absolutely a lock for the HOF.