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Game Thread | 2021-22 Season | Game #4 | Cavs @ Nuggets | Oct. 25, 2021

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The Human Q-Tip said:
I don't believe Sexton can/will ever develop into a floor general type of player. Garland will always be superior to.him in that respect.

But I'm also not sure that is the kind of PG this team necessarily must have moving forward.
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Understood, read my reply to Cavatt to address that line of thinking.
 
DarNoor said:
Is Bally any good? I am looking at ways to stream the games, but, have come up short. Do you get to watch all the Cavs games live? Is it just an app on your phone or can you watch on Amazon Prime? I'm not familiar with it. Thanks.
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I have Bally via Spectrum cable, not streaming. But last night the cable was constantly freezing for minutes at a time (video only, could still hear the audio live). I signed in on the Bally website using my Spectrum account and it worked fine on my tablet. So the stream was good, but I needed an account to use it.
 
Ohioplayer00 said:
BTW this team is a true SG (with size) away from being a top 6-7 team in the EC
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I sometimes chuckle at posts like this.

There are 5 players on the court in basketball.

Almost every bad team is just one good, well fitting player away from being a playoff contender when over half the teams make the playoffs.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
I did. I disagree with your reasoning, but I get it.
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I've got examples all day :chuckle:

Kevin Garnett was on a different trajectory and probably would have had more contending seasons in Minnesota before they gave in to Marbury's trade request and attempted to make KG the offensive hub with a couple of score first undersized shooting guards in the PG role. Those two guards (Randy Foye and Troy Hudson) were pretty solid scorers but drained years off KG's career because he had to spend so much energy and time being the primary facilitator on offense as well as what he was wired to do, which was quarterback the defense and cover the entire floor like Mobley projects to be able to do and is showing flashes for now.

The lone season where KG was able to relinquish control as primary facilitator was the WCF season where Sam Cassell took the reigns and made sure instead of setting the table, KG was clearing his plate on offense more.

As much as I love and don't want to limit Mobley's developmental potential, I believe the two ways we can do that are by:

1. making him the everyday center and asking him to take a beating from 5's who will post his ass up and put their weight on him like Jokic, Embiid
2. ask him to be the primary and main facilitator of the offense, which will wear on him and make him prioritize between being elite as a defensive anchor with limitless energy and just being respectable as a man to man defender OR a weakside help defender who has to conserve energy on D to always have it on the other end

Those two things will result in him becoming AD at the end of his NOLA tenure or Bron at the end of his first tenure here, tired of doing it all on both ends and frustrated by his inability to conserve energy so he can take over games when it's winning time.

But I digress and hope it doesnt come to a place where I'm tapping you on your shoulder in our inbox thread saying " I told you so, Tip" :chuckle:
 
RchfldCavRaised said:
I disagree, as one of the biggest advocates for Mobley

He's so talented as a defender with versatility that one day I would love for him to quarterback that end and be the secondary creator/hub for offense but never the primary on the offensive end as that will undoubtedly cost him on the other end.

Think brilliant two way big men like Duncan, Webber and yes even AD on this. The mistake the Pelicans made with AD was not putting the right PG on the floor to take the ball out of his hands and allow him to play game changing impactful D on the other end for all of his game time. He started compromising down there the more he needed to be all and do all for the offense. The one year they did, with Rondo, they were a Cousins injury away from a title run. AD was doing it ALL on the defensive end. That's what we want/need as Unicorn develops.

Dont want that longterm for Unicorn at all.
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I think he's a better facilitator than Garland and he needs to be a hub if not the hub in the offense. Doesn't mean run every play through his hands, but he wasn't being worn out last night in the 4th, he was effortlessly finding the right play in less than half a second. Darius uses fakes and trickery to get a nice pass off, Mobley just does the right thing and tilts the defense with his passing.

I think he has Jokic potential on offense after seeing what I saw last night. He's on an entirely different level than Darius. If I could trade Darius for a Lonzo Ball or Haliburton type guy right now I would do it in a second.

This is fluid thing, but that is where I am at right now. I already think they should sign Rubio for 15 a year
 
Cavatt said:
I think he's a better facilitator than Garland and he needs to be a hub if not the hub in the offense. Doesn't mean run every play through his hands, but he wasn't being worn out last night in the 4th, he was effortlessly finding the right play in less than half a second. Darius uses fakes and trickery to get a nice pass off, Mobley just does the right thing and tilts the defense with his passing.

I think he has Jokic potential on offense after seeing what I saw last night. He's on an entirely different level than Darius. If I could trade Darius for a Lonzo Ball or Haliburton type guy right now I would do it in a second.

This is fluid thing, but that is where I am at right now. I already think they should sign Rubio for 15 a year
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Jokic can afford to be the hub of his offense and have every play run through him because he doesnt play a lick of defense or expend an ounce of energy on that end at all. Lauri Markannen showed us that on the first possession.

If that's your goal for Mobley's offensive development, you are going to see what I referenced for AD and Bron above. Giannis only broke through and made it beyond the first round because Bud took the ball out of his hands and made his ATL equal opportunity offense the focus and Middleton the closer come the 4th.

This isn't a Mobley vs Garland as facilitators discussion. This is a Mobley's development will be harmed long-term if we make him the primary facilitator discussion.
 
RchfldCavRaised said:
Jokic can afford to be the hub of his offense and have every play run through him because he doesnt play a lick of defense or expend an ounce of energy on that end at all. Lauri Markannen showed us that on the first possession.

If that's your goal for Mobley's offensive development, you are going to see what I referenced for AD and Bron above. Giannis only broke through and made it beyond the first round because Bud took the ball out of his hands and made his ATL equal opportunity offense the focus and Middleton the closer come the 4th.

This isn't a Mobley vs Garland as facilitators discussion. This is a Mobley's development will be harmed long-term if we make him the primary facilitator discussion.
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Yeah I get it. I think we are in a disagreement as to what Mobley is capable of. I think he is a better playmaker than AD today. Seems like not developing that is silly
 
Ozone said:
I mean it is almost laughable that the same people that love Garland are the one's bashing Pangos.
Not much different at all scoring wise, athleticism wise, court vision wise and head height wise with the only real difference being Garlands ball handling and shimmy
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Wow, what a dumb take.
 
Peacedog said:
Wow, what a dumb take.
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gee thanks lol
Pangos proved himself with Zenit St Petersburg more than capable of the same offensive impact as a table setter what Garland has shown in the NBA. You can debate if the NBA is just that much tougher to play in but it was his play in the Euroleague that got him here not 5 games at Vandy against nobody.
I prefer to believe playing against pros at any level is more telling than any college or before.
But hey I'm just dumb
ever seen Garland do this? yep it is what makes people love him:
 
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Cavatt said:
Yeah I get it. I think we are in a disagreement as to what Mobley is capable of. I think he is a better playmaker than AD today. Seems like not developing that is silly
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right some on here are just afraid poor Darius is going to get pinched
 
RchfldCavRaised said:
I've got examples all day :chuckle:

Kevin Garnett was on a different trajectory and probably would have had more contending seasons in Minnesota before they gave in to Marbury's trade request and attempted to make KG the offensive hub with a couple of score first undersized shooting guards in the PG role. Those two guards (Randy Foye and Troy Hudson) were pretty solid scorers but drained years off KG's career because he had to spend so much energy and time being the primary facilitator on offense as well as what he was wired to do, which was quarterback the defense and cover the entire floor like Mobley projects to be able to do and is showing flashes for now.

The lone season where KG was able to relinquish control as primary facilitator was the WCF season where Sam Cassell took the reigns and made sure instead of setting the table, KG was clearing his plate on offense more.

As much as I love and don't want to limit Mobley's developmental potential, I believe the two ways we can do that are by:

1. making him the everyday center and asking him to take a beating from 5's who will post his ass up and put their weight on him like Jokic, Embiid
2. ask him to be the primary and main facilitator of the offense, which will wear on him and make him prioritize between being elite as a defensive anchor with limitless energy and just being respectable as a man to man defender OR a weakside help defender who has to conserve energy on D to always have it on the other end

Those two things will result in him becoming AD at the end of his NOLA tenure or Bron at the end of his first tenure here, tired of doing it all on both ends and frustrated by his inability to conserve energy so he can take over games when it's winning time.

But I digress and hope it doesnt come to a place where I'm tapping you on your shoulder in our inbox thread saying " I told you so, Tip" :chuckle:
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Everything you said in this post is so obvious yet I feel like only die hard hoopers will truly understand it. I felt those points about KG in my soul because KG was my guy.
 
Ozone said:
But hey I'm just dumb. ever seen Garland do this? yep it is what makes people love him:
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There are certainly players who can "set the table" as well as Garland, to use your term. But that isn't the main reason we drafted him. The main reason was the shooting exhibition he put on, which we have seen on a few occasions. While he is indeed a natural PG with regard to his passing (good vision and a willing passer), it is his shooting that is going to separate him from the average NBA point guard. He doesn't have the athleticism (and he never will) to finish at the rim like Westbrook, Sexton, or Wall. That isn't his game. But it isn't Pangos' game either and Pangos' outside shot will never be as good as Garland's. Pangos' game is more like Rubio's if you want to compare point guards.

Garland will mature. He will learn to dribble less and his floater from 12 feet will get better. But it is his shooting that will determine his ceiling. If he doesn't become a consistent Mark Price type sniper, then he will be a below average NBA point guard. It won't be his passing that holds him back.
 
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