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Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

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Drastic changes needed here and you’re gonna want to go back to the drawing board.

Time to bring in Bernie Kosar as Quarterbacks coach, Cowher as coach and Grossi as fullbacks consultant.
 
Ridin' West said:
What makes more sense for the team? Getting Baker healthy and addressing the WR room and adding another lineman, and getting back to what, 80% of what we were in the second half of last year?

Or adding a QB on the same plane as healthy Baker/drafting a rookie?
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I'm against adding some same-tier QB just to get rid of Baker. We've seen their ceilings already - at least with Baker you hope getting healthy will increase his level of play.

Trading for a clear upgrade would be my priority. If Berry and Stefanski love a QB in this draft then I'd get behind that also. Currently we'd be picking 15th - I don't care what the stigma is for drafting a rookie, if it's someone that our organization is confident could run our offense behind our good o-line and RBs, I'm all for it. While it would be nice, we don't need a 400+ yard 4 TD super saiyan Justin Mahomes-Allen Rodgers type of dude here.
 
Fuck me — Jimmy G, Teddy Bridgewater, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Andy fucking Dalton.
 
Los216 said:
I'm sorry but AB and KS did not choose Baker. KS obviously believes in his system. Why are we so quick to dismiss the idea that they will move up to draft their guy in 2022? Why would they not do that? This is a long term thing here. Drafting their guy in 2022 resets the QB price tag too. They get to mold their dude in KS system.

Go and get a stop gap like Jimmy G and Andy Dalton if you don't want to run your 2022 guy out there from day one. Either way we should not be dismissing drafting a QB with our top pick in 2022. A lot of teams picking in the top 10 are not even drafting QB's so it's not like we need to jump a bunch of teams to get our guy.
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Probably because the QB prospects in this draft are pretty underwhelming and hard to believe AB or KS will be head over heels for any of them.

Why would Jimmy G be interested in leaving a situation where he's a stop gap to become a stop gap here?
 
Urban said:
Probably because the QB prospects in this draft are pretty underwhelming and hard to believe AB or KS will be head over heels for any of them.

Why would Jimmy G be interested in leaving a situation where he's a stop gap to become a stop gap here?
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What do you think Jimmy G expects? Is there a starting QB job in a winning situation that he can walk into next season better than ours?

Trey Lance is the future there and Jimmy G is not. He can play in this offense. Where is a better situation for him?

Also to the QB prospects, I keep seeing that they are underwhelming but underwhelming according to what? What if the guy we draft in 2022 doesn't play right away like Fields and lance weren't expected to? A stop gap like Jimmy G or Dalton would be exactly what you would want if you were going to invest a 1st in a QB who you expect to have for at least the next 6 years. Pickett, Strong, Willis, etc don't have to light the league up from the jump. the point is that AB and KS should have an opportunity to go and find their guy. Don't you think they want to go and get their guy? Even if we might think this QB class is underwhelming AB and KS probably feel a lot more comfortable rolling with somebody who they feel is their guy as opposed to being married to Baker by default.
 
Here's what I don't understand in terms of evaluating Baker's future here.

The idea of committing to Baker long term has obviously soured with some people. When all of the potential replacements get brought up people are quick to dismiss them either because of their current play or their whole resume. Currently as of today there aren't a lot of guys that would be wort swapping Baker over but if we're talking their whole resume then guys like Jimmy G and Andy Dalton are just better than Baker. They simply are.

Why are we dismissing options as if baker has proven that he is somehow in a different tier? Baker is not in the tier that a lot of people think that he's in. He's average to below average for a lot of reasons but that's the truth. If we can replace him with a top drat pick in 2022 who AB and KS get to select and a veteran who has a better resume than Baker then we should do it. baker is simply not good enough to dismiss that as an option. The idea of Baker being good is still clouding a lo of peoples judgement but I think most people are starting to come to the realization that he's just not that guy.

All I'm saying is I don't think replacing Baker for 2022 is as daunting of a task that people think it is. We might play ourselves into his long term replacement at this rate.
 
Los216 said:
I'm sorry but AB and KS did not choose Baker. KS obviously believes in his system. Why are we so quick to dismiss the idea that they will move up to draft their guy in 2022? Why would they not do that? This is a long term thing here. Drafting their guy in 2022 resets the QB price tag too. They get to mold their dude in KS system.

Go and get a stop gap like Jimmy G and Andy Dalton if you don't want to run your 2022 guy out there from day one. Either way we should not be dismissing drafting a QB with our top pick in 2022. A lot of teams picking in the top 10 are not even drafting QB's so it's not like we need to jump a bunch of teams to get our guy.
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That is because there is no guy to draft in 2022. Unless somehow we can snag Wilson, a healthy Mayfield is better than a rookie QB next year.
 
Los216 said:
Here's what I don't understand in terms of evaluating Baker's future here.

The idea of committing to Baker long term has obviously soured with some people. When all of the potential replacements get brought up people are quick to dismiss them either because of their current play or their whole resume. Currently as of today there aren't a lot of guys that would be wort swapping Baker over but if we're talking their whole resume then guys like Jimmy G and Andy Dalton are just better than Baker. They simply are.

Why are we dismissing options as if baker has proven that he is somehow in a different tier? Baker is not in the tier that a lot of people think that he's in. He's average to below average for a lot of reasons but that's the truth. If we can replace him with a top drat pick in 2022 who AB and KS get to select and a veteran who has a better resume than Baker then we should do it. baker is simply not good enough to dismiss that as an option. The idea of Baker being good is still clouding a lo of peoples judgement but I think most people are starting to come to the realization that he's just not that guy.

All I'm saying is I don't think replacing Baker for 2022 is as daunting of a task that people think it is. We might play ourselves into his long term replacement at this rate.
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Replacing Baker with jimmy G or dalton isjt the answer. Trading places with 1 mediocre QB with another isn’t going to do it. Those guys are who they are at this point and there is 0 upside with them. What’s frustrating is Baker has the arm talent to be very good. Just like that crossing route to Landry last night, there is probably only 5-6 QB’s in this league that could have thrown that ball like that. It was a ridiculous throw and that’s what makes Baker beyond frustrating. At this point it is 100% mental and confidence issue. Will he ever get that back? I don’t know but I’d be willing to find out if he can over trying to replace him with mediocre talent. Now obviously if they could get a Wilson or Rodgers or Watson it’s a no brainer but after that there really isn’t much more I’d be willing to replace baker with.
 
Los216 said:
Here's what I don't understand in terms of evaluating Baker's future here.

The idea of committing to Baker long term has obviously soured with some people. When all of the potential replacements get brought up people are quick to dismiss them either because of their current play or their whole resume. Currently as of today there aren't a lot of guys that would be wort swapping Baker over but if we're talking their whole resume then guys like Jimmy G and Andy Dalton are just better than Baker. They simply are.
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No one really cares about Dalton and Jimmy G years ago or what they accomplished. Defenses have adjusted to them. What you saw from Dalton in 2015 is not Dalton in 2021, just as what you saw from Baker in 2018 is not Baker in 2021. So the question is, where they stand NOW, are they worth blowing up the QB position for?

We've seen the ceilings of these guys. They're not winning Super Bowls or coming close right now. With Baker, we're worried that we've seen his ceiling and it's the reason we don't want to commit long-term for any serious cash. However, if we're talking about one more year - it's better to see if we're wrong about Baker's ceiling than to swing for a guy we already know is average or worse. Get Baker fully healthy and see if he looks more like his 2020-2021 pre-injury self.

Ideally if we can get a clear upgrade then I think we should do that, but I'd rather dot my i's and t's on Baker than prematurely move on for an average guy that will present similar issues.
 
I really don't get the readiness to anoint or write off entire classes of rookie quarterbacks in November.

I guarantee there will be at least one franchise quarterback in this class. If Berry and Stefanski identify him, I'd love to see the Browns move up and get him.
 
The thing that gets me with Baker stans is that it's never his fault -- it's the injuries, it's the playcalling, it's the WRs not getting open, it's OBJ, it's the offensive line, etc., it's always something... At what point does the reality sink in that he's simply a replacement level player?

At this time, you have just under 60 NFL starts and 1,800 pass attempts to his name, he is what he is: a flawed, but talented, QB who needs the perfect ecosystem to succeed.. He's not a QB you win because but a QB you can win with, but also may win in spite of at times...

As others have noted in this thread, and even Cris Collinsworth noted last night, teams are daring the Browns pass offense and Baker to beat them and they simply can't... The story with that, and the story with Baker's career thus far, is he's shown he can at times but he's shown he can't consistently do it... There will be throws and there will be stretches but if he wants to be more than a replacement level player he has to do it consistently.. The only consistent thing he is is inconsistent..

I know there's the latter half of last season and his rookie year stretches but outside of that, there's been more bad then good.. To which I would say it's safe to say his hot stretches are propping up his ability more over his ability to be a good QB year over year...

The problem with this whole conundrum is I just don't know where the Browns go from here given the available options... But even the fact we're debating if Marcus Mariota or Andy Dalton would be an upgrade, or whether his backup could outperform him is an indictment against Baker...

Sure Baker is better than what the Browns have had, but rising from embarrassment to mediocrity shouldn't be celebrated like it is... If Baker wants to be celebrated, he should play like a #1 pick and elevate his team when they've been on counting on him the most...
 
Los216 said:
Also to the QB prospects, I keep seeing that they are underwhelming but underwhelming according to what? What if the guy we draft in 2022 doesn't play right away like Fields and lance weren't expected to? A stop gap like Jimmy G or Dalton would be exactly what you would want if you were going to invest a 1st in a QB who you expect to have for at least the next 6 years.
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We are too ready to win roster wise.

We can't invest in a QB with a 1st round pick and not be willing to immediately play him IMO.

If a rookie can't step in and be average, behind a good line and a great run game, he just isn't good enough for our timeline.

I don't like Baker but I certainly hate this plan even more.

The stop gap is only appealing to me if it is a significant cost reduction for league average production.

The stop gap + QB investment in a player who will sit, just can't be an option on a team that is going to need an OT / DE / WR as well.
 
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Smooth said:
The thing that gets me with Baker stans is that it's never his fault -- it's the injuries, it's the playcalling, it's the WRs not getting open, it's OBJ, it's the offensive line, etc., it's always something... At what point does the reality sink in that he's simply a replacement level player?

At this time, you have just under 60 NFL starts and 1,800 pass attempts to his name, he is what he is: a flawed, but talented, QB who needs the perfect ecosystem to succeed.. He's not a QB you win because but a QB you can win with, but also may win in spite of at times...

As others have noted in this thread, and even Cris Collinsworth noted last night, teams are daring the Browns pass offense and Baker to beat them and they simply can't... The story with that, and the story with Baker's career thus far, is he's shown he can at times but he's shown he can't consistently do it... There will be throws and there will be stretches but if he wants to be more than a replacement level player he has to do it consistently.. The only consistent thing he is is inconsistent..

I know there's the latter half of last season and his rookie year stretches but outside of that, there's been more bad then good.. To which I would say it's safe to say his hot stretches are propping up his ability more over his ability to be a good QB year over year...

The problem with this whole conundrum is I just don't know where the Browns go from here given the available options... But even the fact we're debating if Marcus Mariota or Andy Dalton would be an upgrade, or whether his backup could outperform him is an indictment against Baker...

Sure Baker is better than what the Browns have had, but rising from embarrassment to mediocrity shouldn't be celebrated like it is... If Baker wants to be celebrated, he should play like a #1 pick and elevate his team when they've been on counting on him the most...
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This is spot on. Baker needs to be consistent. Simple as that. Just when you think he starts to turn the corner it goes back to old habits. I’d still put my eggs in the hopefully Baker figures it out basket over trying to replace him with a lot of the names being thrown out there. The best thing they can do if they can’t get Watson or Wilson is let Baker’s contract play out while upgrading the rest of the team and hope he figures it out in the next year and a half and if he doesn’t then you make the move at the QB position with all the right pieces already around them.
 
CBBI said:
This play here sums up my frustrations with Baker Mayfield this season in a nutshell.

Mayfield does everything correct right up until the moment it's time to pull the trigger, then he hesitates and eats a sack.

Hance does give up outside pressure immediately and that's not good. But Baker for seemingly the first time in months actually steps up in the pocket like a good QB is supposed to do. He resets his feet correctly and gets himself into the proper mechanics to deliver an on time and on target throw. He looks right at Landry who is open enough for this to be a completion. No, he's not wide open, but this a window that an NFL QB just has to hit.

And he just doesn't pull the trigger. He double clutches and gets sacked.


View attachment 7195
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This is just amazing to me. Couple guys open and he can't pull the trigger. Chubb easily has a 15-20 yard gain, how is this any ones fault except Baker?
 
Unpopular take:

Why is everyone so quick to dismiss what we saw from Baker the last 10 weeks of last season + the playoff win? Why is it so hard to believe that:

1.) He's incredibly banged up and it is significantly affecting his performance.

2.) The coaching staff has decided he is/was the better option, even when banged up, than Keenum.

3.) There is a good chance he can return to his end of season form from last year if he gets healthy next season.

and 4.) We can still pick up his 5th year option, draft or trade for better QB competition as a "plan B", and see what happens next year?


People act like we have to either completely move on from Baker now, or sign up for the current injured version of him for the foreseeable future. We still have options here, and the injuries cannot be completely dismissed. Yeah, the situation sucks, but the best option is still bullet point #4 above.
 
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