Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

[TyGuy]

I really don't get the readiness to anoint or write off entire classes of rookie quarterbacks in November.

I guarantee there will be at least one franchise quarterback in this class. If Berry and Stefanski identify him, I'd love to see the Browns move up and get him.

I'm old to to remember when the 2011 draft class was written off only for it to be one of the better classes in recent memory.

 

[Vee-Rex]

This is just amazing to me. Couple guys open and he can't pull the trigger. Chubb easily has a 15-20 yard gain, how is this any ones fault except Baker?

He's looking right at the open guy. Staring at him and hesitating. Landry is clearly looking back, expecting the ball, and prepared to sit on the route.

The crazy thing is... if you don't like what you see, why not move on to your checkdown? I understand Chubb not being the initial read, but not only did he fail to pull the trigger on the open guy he's staring down, he refused to move off of him to the safety valve.

I think stepping up into the pocket is difficult for him because it reduces his vision due to his height and he struggles to suss out where defenders might be, so he is afraid to throw the ball. Thing is... this sort of problem isn't going to go away and I hesitate on marrying myself to it long-term.

 

[CBBI]

We are too ready to win roster wise.

We can't invest in a QB with a 1st round pick and not be willing to immediately play him IMO.

If a rookie can't step in and be average, behind a good line and a great run game, he just isn't good enough for our timeline.

I don't like Baker but I certainly hate this plan even more.

The stop gap is only appealing to me if it is a significant cost reduction for league average production.

The stop gap + QB investment in a player who will sit, just can't be an option on a team that is going to need an OT / DE / WR as well.

The Browns starting QB in Week 1 of 2022 can only realistically be one of three possibilities.

1. Baker Mayfield
2. A veteran QB the Browns acquire via trade who is clearly better than Baker Mayfield - aka Rodgers/Wilson/Watson/Carr
3. Rookie QB drafted in the 1st or 2nd round

I don't think it makes sense for the Browns to sign a veteran QB as a free agent and have that player "compete" with Baker or outright replace him. None of the guys available on the free agent market give the Browns a higher ceiling than they already have.

I also do not think the Browns can draft a QB and sit them behind Baker, Keenum or another veteran who may be signed.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Why is everyone so quick to dismiss what we saw from Baker the last 10 weeks of last season + the playoff win?

I feel like this is certainly a very rosy glass half full take.

It just represents a very small sample of his career.

And we have seen QB's in the past, merely get hot for a stretch but never reclaim that momentum.

The injury is certainly playing a part in performance but to me it is more amplifying what he can't do than it is limiting what he can.

He's capable of making good throws......he made some last night.......but the inconstancy with which he plays has plagued him his entire carer. I tend to view that inconsistency as more of a player attribute than it is a result of an injury or bad season.

I just don't believe he'll perform at a high level over the long haul and it is better to pursue a plan B now, prior to committing long term money to him.

Maybe he heals up and proves it next year but I'd be more inclined to bet on a healthier version of what we are seeing now but a QB that will play nowhere near he did during his best cross section of games in his career.

 

[Urban]

What do you think Jimmy G expects? Is there a starting QB job in a winning situation that he can walk into next season better than ours?

Trey Lance is the future there and Jimmy G is not. He can play in this offense. Where is a better situation for him?

I can guarantee he doesn't want to be back in the same situation he just left and doesn't want to be the next Teddy Bridgewater hopping from team to team on 1 year deals.

Steelers, Broncos, WFT, Saints, and Panthers could all use a new long-term QB starting next season. Then we have teams like the Texans, Packers, and Seahawks whose QB situation is a bit up in the air. Then the Browns and Giants who could cut bait with their current QBs. Throw Atlanta in the mix if Matt Ryan wants to move on.

Also to the QB prospects, I keep seeing that they are underwhelming but underwhelming according to what? What if the guy we draft in 2022 doesn't play right away like Fields and lance weren't expected to? A stop gap like Jimmy G or Dalton would be exactly what you would want if you were going to invest a 1st in a QB who you expect to have for at least the next 6 years. Pickett, Strong, Willis, etc don't have to light the league up from the jump. the point is that AB and KS should have an opportunity to go and find their guy. Don't you think they want to go and get their guy? Even if we might think this QB class is underwhelming AB and KS probably feel a lot more comfortable rolling with somebody who they feel is their guy as opposed to being married to Baker by default.

Underwhelming to pretty much anyone and everyone?

Not interested in getting into a "their guy"-off but the next QB they take in the draft determines the franchise's direction and their future with the organization. Maybe they do fall in love with one of the 2022 guys but I don't see it.

 

[OptimusPrime]

It's not like Mayfield was carrying the team last year. He played well the last half of the season, well enough that I wanted to see what he looked like the 2nd year in the offense, but the running game always did the heavy lifting.

Well now in the 2nd year in the offense he looks like Cody Kessler. I watched more than I ever wanted to see of Kessler when he was here. I have no desire to watch him again.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

There isn't a 2022 guy to fall in love with. No one is that good, most of the good prospects are either Fr, RsFr or Sophs this year.

I'm not at all intrigued by Jimmy G. He's the permanent bad version of Baker. People claim he hits the open guy, meanwhile SF was desperate to move on from him. He's struggled in an offense that is basically a mirror of our own, and he's trending down too. He's not worth the money and draft capital.

I think of the more frustrating things for Baker is his refusal to look at the flat. He doesn't take a check down unless it is directly in front of him. He has all these mental holes and has shown no growth in any of the areas. It's beyond frustrating.

 

[natedagg]

The Browns starting QB in Week 1 of 2022 can only realistically be one of three possibilities.

1. Baker Mayfield
2. A veteran QB the Browns acquire via trade who is clearly better than Baker Mayfield - aka Rodgers/Wilson/Watson/Carr
3. Rookie QB drafted in the 1st or 2nd round

I don't think it makes sense for the Browns to sign a veteran QB as a free agent and have that player "compete" with Baker or outright replace him. None of the guys available on the free agent market give the Browns a higher ceiling than they already have.

I also do not think the Browns can draft a QB and sit them behind Baker, Keenum or another veteran who may be signed.

I think we roll with Baker again but that's a high stakes move. Although I am down on him, it can't be argued that there have been games where he absolutely played to perfection. Heck he set the rookie touchdown record. So there is something there. This year for whatever reason - it's really really bad. I'd say it's his injuries that snowballed into some bad habits (that you've pointed out), and his eyes just stop progressing, and his clutching is screwing with his mechanics as well. But yeah, the worst part about yesterday is that the fans are starting to realize that it isn't even about this year, it's about "the window" and how that's constantly changing.

Me? I fucking refuse to give up high draft picks with Andrew Dingle Fucking Berry drafting. Not when he brought us Newsome and future HOF JOK. So whatever, keep him, maybe we get a comp pick (?) if he walks, and if he plays great, he'll still not have a top-tier track record. If he doesn't play well, then we pivot.

 

[Triplethreat]

The bar has devolved so low, that a 45 QBR now doesn't feel like the main issue.

Basically, if Baker doesn't fire himself in to the sun, it feels like a win.

Drops didn't help but he also spent half the game fleeing pressure he was "feeling" and destroying every on time route concept we had going.

I wish someone had his flush stats on the season. They have to be the worst in the league. Every time he bails the pocket, absolutely nothing happens. His performance out of structure is laughably bad. I'm sure Wink was laughing every time it happened.

Our "superstar RBs" averaged 2.0 YPC....

How is this all on Baker? I thought he was dealing better than he had almost all season. Our RBs and playcalling put us in 3rd and long all night long, and Lamar Jackson had a 25 QBR, so thanks he must be the issue too.

 

[Ohio]

I slept on it and I am still convinced Case Keenum wins that game which just makes me.... want to go back to sleep for a few more years

No doubt. Keenum wins the Steelers game, too.

Once Baker missed the Broncos game, he should have been put down until the bye week. We'd have one more win right now and have given Baker time to heal.

Just a massive fuck up.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I'm old to to remember when the 2011 draft class was written off only for it to be one of the better classes in recent memory.

The 2021 class was also supposed to be amazing and look where we’re at thus far…

Trevor Lawrence has been straight up bad.

Zach Wilson makes Baker this year look like prime Peyton Manning. This week, he threw a shovel pass to a RB who wasn’t even facing him.

Justin Fields has looked good in like one game and has been terrible otherwise.

Trey Lance has looked raw as fuck the few times he’s taken the field and may never be anything other than an athlete who happens to play QB.

Mac Jones has been far and away the best rookie QB, and mostly because has demonstrated basic competence where everyone else has been a dumpster fire.

 

[Ohio]

I really don't get the readiness to anoint or write off entire classes of rookie quarterbacks in November.

I guarantee there will be at least one franchise quarterback in this class. If Berry and Stefanski identify him, I'd love to see the Browns move up and get him.

Sometimes a draft class is as bad as everyone says it is. See 2013, which did not have one QB worth a shit and everyone knew it before, during and after the draft.

This class is easily the worst since 2013. It is really, really bad. Absolutely no QB worth taking in the top half of the 1st round, or arguably in the 1st round period. Does this mean there's no chance any of these guys end up being good? No. But, as prospects, they are bad. For the Browns, spending a 1st rounder on any of these guys would be a catastrophe.

That said, I'm on board with a mid-round guy if Berry & KS find one they like.

 

[Smooth]

Our "superstar RBs" averaged 2.0 YPC....

How is this all on Baker? I thought he was dealing better than he had almost all season. Our RBs and playcalling put us in 3rd and long all night long, and Lamar Jackson had a 25 QBR, so thanks he must be the issue too.

You're looking at the end and not seeing how they got there..

The reason why the Browns failed to produce effectively on the ground is because the Ravens were stacking the box, playing the run, and looking to take away that element... Teams know the Browns run offense is one of the best in the league and what they thrive off of, so they elected to take that away and make Baker beat them through the air...

Baker's inability to make teams think twice about stacking the box and give some relief to a congested run game at the moment, how you come to the RBs averaging 2.0 YPC last night...

Stefanski was calling early down pass plays and leaving heavy in the pass because the defense was playing the run heavy and the success rate just wasn't there... So in turn, when Stefanski asks Baker to help keep the defense honest, he wasn't able to do that...

 

[Smooth]

Unpopular take:

Why is everyone so quick to dismiss what we saw from Baker the last 10 weeks of last season + the playoff win? Why is it so hard to believe that:

1.) He's incredibly banged up and it is significantly affecting his performance.

2.) The coaching staff has decided he is/was the better option, even when banged up, than Keenum.

3.) There is a good chance he can return to his end of season form from last year if he gets healthy next season.

and 4.) We can still pick up his 5th year option, draft or trade for better QB competition as a "plan B", and see what happens next year?


People act like we have to either completely move on from Baker now, or sign up for the current injured version of him for the foreseeable future. We still have options here, and the injuries cannot be completely dismissed. Yeah, the situation sucks, but the best option is still bullet point #4 above.

Here's the condundrum: The 2021 Baker is playing like the 2019 Baker, and 2021/2019 Baker is closer to 2018 Baker which is near the bottom half of the league..

In looking at any of the available metrics, 2020 Baker seems to be the outlier in his performance and the large sample of data skews more to him being near the bottom half of QBs then the top half of QBs..

So within that, why is his success being held in a higher regard then his failures?

The tantalizing thing with Baker is we've seen he can do it and can do it well but there's just haven't been enough flashes or enough consistent flashes to disregard the product he's put out there over the course of his career thus far...

 

[Los216]

No one really cares about Dalton and Jimmy G years ago or what they accomplished. Defenses have adjusted to them. What you saw from Dalton in 2015 is not Dalton in 2021, just as what you saw from Baker in 2018 is not Baker in 2021. So the question is, where they stand NOW, are they worth blowing up the QB position for?

We've seen the ceilings of these guys. They're not winning Super Bowls or coming close right now. With Baker, we're worried that we've seen his ceiling and it's the reason we don't want to commit long-term for any serious cash. However, if we're talking about one more year - it's better to see if we're wrong about Baker's ceiling than to swing for a guy we already know is average or worse. Get Baker fully healthy and see if he looks more like his 2020-2021 pre-injury self.

Ideally if we can get a clear upgrade then I think we should do that, but I'd rather dot my i's and t's on Baker than prematurely move on for an average guy that will present similar issues.

I think you're underselling Jimmy G here