Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

Bkerr02 said:

The point is it’s a combination of a lot of things not just Baker. Yes Baker needs to be a lot better. But other parts of the offense haven’t been very good either. Dropping balls, penalties, pass protection at times, not running routes correctly, Baker not making throws or panicking in the pocket. It’s a combination of everything not just Baker like people make it out to be.

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Those unforced errors do hurt the offense. But for every one of those errors Baker matches it by doing questionable shit with the ball. Like placing a throw at the receivers back shoulder when it's not necessary or holding the ball too long on quick routes, and generally playing out of rhythm.

You can overcome a lot of bullshit if Baker can capitalize on these defensive coverages. Even with teams stacking the box, our run game has largely been able to overcome it and place Baker in advantageous situations like last year. Baker should be killing it if he could just go through his progressions in a timely manner and in turn force defenses to cover the intermediate/deep pass or give up big plays/TDs.

Vee-Rex said:

I didn't say it was a timing route.

Let me ask you this... if Baker threw to where Chubb was drifting and Chubb suddenly flattened his route, is it Baker's fault that he didn't throw where he was supposed to? There's a defender driving on where Chubb is - if Chubb flattens, there's a chance for an interception there.

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From an open pocket on a flat route, absolutely.

I firmly believe that Chubb’s route widens because he’s trying to track the pass. He shouldn’t have to. Ball on his persons.

Now, will I openly admit good balls bad production? Yeah. Felton’s drop was inexcusable. DPJ should have caught it. Even though Baker didn’t need to double clutch, Njoku HAS to catch his.

Baker’s Ravens game tape is why he infuriated me. He does things so well that are hard, that the easy shit missed drives me INSANE.

I can’t stress this enough. I’m almost positive I have more money invested in Baker Mayfield than anyone else on this board. Him failing is a huge hit to my pocket.

Bkerr02 said:

Sigh it’s bc the ball was designed to go to Chubb quick in the flat. It’s literally his first read. Obviously getting the ball to Chubb right out of his break gives him the opportunity to pick up YAC instead a late throw the LB has plenty of time to close in on Chubb for only a 2 yard gain. Not everything is Bakers fault as much as you want it to be.

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“Tell me you’ve never played football without telling me you never played football”

Baker isn’t reading flat routes in this concept. The only read is a single defender and his reaction to the slant. It goes slant open? Yes throw, no check down.

Baker would process is if the slant is appropriate, and the defender responsible for Chubb goes to the flat- then, and only then, is he cycling through reads.

We do not ask him to cycle reads. We’re asking him to read one player, and the player is a defender.

daddywags said:

From reading the last few pages, I think Tony Dungy has it right: the Browns are built to run the ball first and if they can't run they won't win.

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I think that is at least partially a result of putting so many resources into the offensive line and running back position rather than the wide receiver room.

The Human Q-Tip said:

I think that is at least partially a result of putting so many resources into the offensive line and running back position rather than the wide receiver room.

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We had the same WR's last season

Los216 said:

We had the same WR's last season

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If memory serves, last year vs Baltimore Humphrey covered OBJ. Regardless of his value otherwise, having OBJ occupy the opponent's number 1 corner was useful to the passing game IMO. Humphrey smothered DPJ last Sunday night (from what I saw).

DJTJ said:

“Tell me you’ve never played football without telling me you never played football”

Baker isn’t reading flat routes in this concept. The only read is a single defender and his reaction to the slant. It goes slant open? Yes throw, no check down.

Baker would process is if the slant is appropriate, and the defender responsible for Chubb goes to the flat- then, and only then, is he cycling through reads.

We do not ask him to cycle reads. We’re asking him to read one player, and the player is a defender.

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It wasn’t a slant it was actually a 5 yard curl by the TE to occupy the LB to hit Chubb in the flat. If the LB runs right away with Chubb he hits the curl if he goes with the TE the ball goes ti the flat. So yes it is a 1 read play in a sense. It’s a simple curl flat combo route. I know bc we ran this same concept a ton in college out of a variety of formations. But you are still missing the point. Yes Baker has his issues and needs to play better, I think every single Browns fans agree on that. But to sit there and say the entire offenses problem are Baker and that’s it, simply isn’t true at all and it’s a combination of a bunch of things.

daddywags said:

If memory serves, last year vs Baltimore Humphrey covered OBJ. Regardless of his value otherwise, having OBJ occupy the opponent's number 1 corner was useful to the passing game IMO. Humphrey smothered DPJ last Sunday night (from what I saw).

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Baltimore to there credit did a good job moving Humphrey all over. He was on TE’s a lot and was forcing the WR’s to beat there 2nd and 3rd corners which more times than not didn’t happen.

DJTJ said:

From an open pocket on a flat route, absolutely.

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So you're essentially saying:

No matter how Baker throws it (towards the flat or not), even if Chubb alters his route (and doesn't run the way he's supposed to), it's Baker's fault?

That's just... unfair. If Chubb runs a post route across the middle, it's still Baker's fault because Baker has a clean pocket? How is he supposed to know that when he begins his throwing motion Chubb wouldn't stop or turn in another direction?

You cannot blame the QB if the pass-catcher runs the wrong route.

DJTJ said:

I can’t stress this enough. I’m almost positive I have more money invested in Baker Mayfield than anyone else on this board. Him failing is a huge hit to my pocket.

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Sounds you're developing bias against Mayfield because he's putting a hole in your pocket.

Vee-Rex said:

So you're essentially saying:

No matter how Baker throws it (towards the flat or not), even if Chubb alters his route (and doesn't run the way he's supposed to), it's Baker's fault?

That's just... unfair. If Chubb runs a post route across the middle, it's still Baker's fault because Baker has a clean pocket? How is he supposed to know that when he begins his throwing motion Chubb wouldn't stop or turn in another direction?

You cannot blame the QB if the pass-catcher runs the wrong route.

Sounds you're developing bias against Mayfield because he's putting a hole in your pocket.

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So let’s break this down.

Chubb WASNT running a post route. So, of COURSE not. On this specific play, and route, Baker is absolutely responsible for putting it on the body. The XComp is likely over 90%! But by changing the route, you’re clearly not willing to have a good faith argument. Within my last few posts, I clearly blamed other players. Quit grasping for straws from people who don’t support Baker in every single play because he’s our QB.

On the second, it’s a sunk cost. I own over 2k in Baker Mayfield rookie cards, AND three jerseys. He’s still my favorite Brown and likely will be after he leaves. I still wear the jerseys. They weren’t items I purchased to profit from. So, no. No developed bias. Even if we moved ON from Baker, they’re still things I’d keep. Just like I still have a framed Braylon Edwards jersey. And how I still have a Chris Mihm lunch box. I like Cleveland. I support my teams.

Bkerr02 said:

The point is it’s a combination of a lot of things not just Baker. Yes Baker needs to be a lot better. But other parts of the offense haven’t been very good either. Dropping balls, penalties, pass protection at times, not running routes correctly, Baker not making throws or panicking in the pocket. It’s a combination of everything not just Baker like people make it out to be.

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Is *everything* Baker's fault? Of course not. There have been drops, lack of separation on routes, protection breakdowns etc.

But the point that so many of us are screaming and will continue to scream is that if Baker was better, almost all of the other things I just pointed out that are also negatively impacting this offense would suddenly become way less detrimental because good/great QB play almost always trumps all.

QB play is pretty much always going to have the most impact on an offense's success or failure.

The Human Q-Tip said:

I think that is at least partially a result of putting so many resources into the offensive line and running back position rather than the wide receiver room.

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Coming into this season they had two of the top 15 paid WRs in the sport.

CBBI said:

Coming into this season they had two of the top 15 paid WRs in the sport.

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And Kevin Love makes more than Allen and Mobley combined.

DJTJ said:

So let’s break this down.

Chubb WASNT running a post route. So, of COURSE not. On this specific play, and route, Baker is absolutely responsible for putting it on the body. The XComp is likely over 90%! But by changing the route, you’re clearly not willing to have a good faith argument. Within my last few posts, I clearly blamed other players. Quit grasping for straws from people who don’t support Baker in every single play because he’s our QB.

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Huh? My point is that if Chubb runs the wrong route, why are you putting it on Baker? You keep mentioning that Baker needs to put it on Chubb's body and that whether or not he ran the correct route is irrelevant. So I offered the post route as an example, because that would be running the wrong route. You're inconsistent here.

DJTJ said:

On the second, it’s a sunk cost. I own over 2k in Baker Mayfield rookie cards, AND three jerseys. He’s still my favorite Brown and likely will be after he leaves. I still wear the jerseys. They weren’t items I purchased to profit from. So, no. No developed bias. Even if we moved ON from Baker, they’re still things I’d keep. Just like I still have a framed Braylon Edwards jersey. And how I still have a Chris Mihm lunch box. I like Cleveland. I support my teams.

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Don't really care if you give Baker blowjobs at cheesecake factories - blaming an incompletion on him even if his target ran the wrong route (because he thought his target would flatten out) is absolutely ridiculous. If Chubb DIDN'T run the wrong route then I'd agree.

Vee-Rex said:

Huh? My point is that if Chubb runs the wrong route, why are you putting it on Baker? You keep mentioning that Baker needs to put it on Chubb's body and that whether or not he ran the correct route is irrelevant. So I offered the post route as an example, because that would be running the wrong route. You're inconsistent here.

Don't really care if you give Baker blowjobs at cheesecake factories - blaming an incompletion on him even if his target ran the wrong route (because he thought his target would flatten out) is absolutely ridiculous. If Chubb DIDN'T run the wrong route then I'd agree.

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I’m not being inconsistent.

You’re changing the route to fit a narrative, and I’m ignoring it because it’s irrelevant to the play.

Nick Chubb didn’t run a post. It’s asinine to assume that an entirely different route concept than the play under scrutiny is relevant to anything besides a misled agenda.

Edit- to play your game, if Nick Chubb runs a post instead of a flat Baker doesn’t throw the ball