Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

People are seriously saying Josh Allen isn't an outlier?

QBR Rank By Year and Rank

2018- 49.8 (24th)
2019- 49.4 (24th)
2020- 76.6 (3rd)
2021- 60.6 (6th)

Show me another QB who made a jump anywhere near that.

I don't say this to give Dorsey a pass or to make myself feel better about the Browns taking Baker. Just that Josh Allen took a pretty unprecedented jump from 2 mediocre years into a Top 5 QB

Triplethreat said:

Because he clearly doesn’t have that issue anymore.

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But he did when he came out. It's not like they were fake concerns

How much of Baker's accuracy should be credited to Lincoln Riley who made Kyler Murray and Jalen Hurts look like Heisman Trophy QB's too?

Josh Allen didn't play in a pass happy system like Baker did. Baker did not have to work to make his throws or go through progressions like Allen did.

I still believe in Baker being good enough to get us where we want to go and think he's been treated pretty unfairly by the media here but I also think someone needs to tell him to get the hell off social media for awhile.

Los216 said:

How much of Baker's accuracy should be credited to Lincoln Riley who made Kyler Murray and Jalen Hurts look like Heisman Trophy QB's too?

Josh Allen didn't play in a pass happy system like Baker did. Baker did not have to work to make his throws or go through progressions like Allen did.

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Excellent points! All too often, fans don’t consider that and still make those apples to oranges comparisons.

Josh Allen had equivalent, if not worse QB-play in 2020 (MVP'ish year) in a 4-game stretch while playing through an inferior left shoulder injury than Baker had in 2021.

I think people are underselling the impact of a fully torn labrum (and how much the shoulder harness affects mechanics) if they're thinking 2021 Baker's performance is anywhere near the norm for him.

Our front office may upgrade if possible but it looks like they're willing to see if 2020 Baker was an outlier rather than trying to just get rid of him. I know people are frustrated and we expected to be a dynasty and winning Super Bowls for the next 10 years, but I'm confident the process (with or without Baker) will work itself out.

thestatman said:

Yes, the same Daryl Ruiter who wanted the Browns to draft either Rosen or Darnold. What a phony piece of shit he is. As for Josh Allen good for him. He has proven all the experts who do the mock drafts wrong.

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I dont remember a single poster on here that had Josh Allen in their top 3 much less number 1.

Looks like we were all wrong, myself included. But lets not pretend a single GM in the league takes Josh Allen #1 back then...sure in a re-draft, but that is too easy.

Triplethreat said:

Are you staying this as in you did that? Because I remember you being about the most anti Josh Allen poster on this board because of his “accuracy” issues.

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We all allow ourselves to do it.

Its a universal method of evaluation in quarterbacks.


Allen had a strong arm and had throws where the ball was simply not even remotely close to the target, much less showing pinpoint accuracy to a spot within his receivers catch radius. He deserves all the credit for proving people like me wrong, because there aren't really much in the way of "sound" ways to evaluate true accuracy or how one can develop/improve at it over time.

Dustin Fox saga continues

Amherstcavsfan said:

Yeah, that's really the biggest disappointment. Baker really had analytical and scouting profile that says he should be a good to great QB. But so far, for whatever reason, he hasn't been able to improve almost at all, especially mentally.

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This is it in a nutshell.

Baker doesn't have great physical gifts, but he has enough to succeed at a high level *if* he also had the mental gifts to back it up.

But because he's lacking mentally, his physical limitations are more glaring than they should be.

What does Baker Mayfield’s shoulder have to do with what he doesn’t see downfield or decision making before he attempts a throw ?

PIP said:

What does Baker Mayfield’s shoulder have to do with what he doesn’t see downfield or decision making before he attempts a throw ?

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Confidence. He didn’t trust his mechanics, he didn’t trust his accuracy, he didn’t trust his tackles etc. when Baker is confident he can make throws 90% of the league can’t make. We saw it his rookie year, we saw it in 2020, we saw it even the first 2 games of this year.

PIP said:

What does Baker Mayfield’s shoulder have to do with what he doesn’t see downfield or decision making before he attempts a throw ?

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Just offhand, I can think of two things:

1) It may be that because of the pain in his shoulder, he had to have his feet set a certain way and body oriented in a certain direction to make throws. If they weren't set correctly, the rotation of his upper body/shoulder would be too painful. So, if a receiver comes open unexpectedly, he just may not be oriented correctly to make that throw.

2) If you're in pain, it can affect your ability to make quick/good decisions.

I'm not saying either of those things definitely were at play in that particular instance. I'm just tossing them out there as possibilities.

PIP said:

What does Baker Mayfield’s shoulder have to do with what he doesn’t see downfield or decision making before he attempts a throw ?

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I think you could make a case that a painful off-throwing shoulder injury could affect a lot of things like confidence, timing, focus, accuracy, velocity. Adding the foot and groin injuries to screw up mechanics and mobility, the loss of confidence in the pass protection, maybe an over-heightened sense of urgency bordering on desperation... I think when he was behind center he was a complete mess from the neck up.

Even if you assume all this, some of his mental screw-ups and horrible decisions are really hard to explain. And that's what was most troublesome about Baker's performance the past season.

Vee-Rex said:

Josh Allen had equivalent, if not worse QB-play in 2020 (MVP'ish year) in a 4-game stretch while playing through an inferior left shoulder injury than Baker had in 2021.

I think people are underselling the impact of a fully torn labrum (and how much the shoulder harness affects mechanics) if they're thinking 2021 Baker's performance is anywhere near the norm for him.

Our front office may upgrade if possible but it looks like they're willing to see if 2020 Baker was an outlier rather than trying to just get rid of him. I know people are frustrated and we expected to be a dynasty and winning Super Bowls for the next 10 years, but I'm confident the process (with or without Baker) will work itself out.

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2020 Baker wouldn't have been good enough to beat Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Carr, or Herbert in the playoffs this year.

2020 Baker is a very low bar after what we've seen in the playoffs this season so why do people keep referring to that as if that's good enough to get it done going forward? It's not.

I don't think 2020 Baker beats either Carr or Herbert in that regular season finale. 2020 Baker doesn't beat Carr or Burrow in that Wildcard game. 2020 Baker definitely doesn't beat Mahomes or Allen last night.

So what are we really arguing for here? We're arguing that we better hope that our current QB can play to a level two seasons ago that's not going to be good enough to win next season?

Seriously??????

I didn't even add Watson or Jackson who have also played at a higher level than 2020 Baker at a more consistent basis. We'd be lucky if we beat Mac Jones, Trevor Lawrence, or Ryan Tannehill but those guys have as good of a shot at outplaying Baker as he does outplaying them.