Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

[Malacogary]

The particularly inexplicable performance was the Vikings game: the first time he tried to play in the harness if I'm not mistaken. That's where the famous non-throw to Felton featured.

 

[Selby]

2020 Baker wouldn't have been good enough to beat Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Carr, or Herbert in the playoffs this year.

To be fair, no one is beating Herbert in the playoffs this year.

 

[CBBI]

2020 Baker wouldn't have been good enough to beat Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Carr, or Herbert in the playoffs this year.

2020 Baker is a very low bar after what we've seen in the playoffs this season so why do people keep referring to that as if that's good enough to get it done going forward? It's not.

I don't think 2020 Baker beats either Carr or Herbert in that regular season finale. 2020 Baker doesn't beat Carr or Burrow in that Wildcard game. 2020 Baker definitely doesn't beat Mahomes or Allen last night.

So what are we really arguing for here? We're arguing that we better hope that our current QB can play to a level two seasons ago that's not going to be good enough to win next season?

Seriously??????

I think you're being a little harsh, but generally I agree with your overarching point.

Baker can't just get back to his 2020 form because that form isn't good enough to make the conference title game, much less actually win the Super Bowl.

He has to get back to that level and improve upon it by quite a bit for the Browns to get closer to the place they want to go.

Seems like a very tall task for that to happen. Winning one playoff game with a significant QB disadvantage is reasonable. Winning two is even tougher. Winning three or four? Feels virtually impossible.

 

[Los216]

To be fair, no one is beating Herbert in the playoffs this year.

But is the 2020 version of Baker better than Herbert this season?

 

[Vee-Rex]

What does Baker Mayfield’s shoulder have to do with what he doesn’t see downfield or decision making before he attempts a throw ?

I'm speculating, but I'd say quite a bit. If you aren't able to maneuver or throw as well, it's easy to forego even attempting to make additional reads if you are worried about having to make a quick, unorthodox throw. The mental creep, I would imagine, is real.

Take it from Matt Hasselback - the guy who spent 3 years playing on a partially torn labrum in his off-shoulder before ultimately getting surgery as it got worse. He started getting other injuries due to the body compensating for it. He said he tried it - playing with that harness makes it impossible to be accurate on your throws. He said you either play healthy without the harness or get surgery.

I have to imagine simply knowing your accuracy is severely hampered would wear on your own mindset and affect decision-making. Do you attempt to make that throw that you probably can't make, or do you start panicking in the pocket? Blah blah blah, it's speculation but I think warrants consideration when talking about how the injury affects other parts of his game.

 

[Vee-Rex]

I think you're being a little harsh, but generally I agree with your overarching point.

Baker can't just get back to his 2020 form because that form isn't good enough to make the conference title game, much less actually win the Super Bowl.

He has to get back to that level and improve upon it by quite a bit for the Browns to get closer to the place they want to go.

Seems like a very tall task for that to happen. Winning one playoff game with a significant QB disadvantage is reasonable. Winning two is even tougher. Winning three or four? Feels virtually impossible.

2020 form > playoff Garoppolo and we've seen him in the conference title game multiple times, including a Super Bowl. The overall team (as well as luck) are enormous factors here, it's not just "Top-end Elite QB or bust".

If you want to say, "Baker needs to improve to improve the chances we'll get to the AFC Championship" then I'm 100% with you.

 

[sailfish]

I'm speculating, but I'd say quite a bit. If you aren't able to maneuver or throw as well, it's easy to forego even attempting to make additional reads if you are worried about having to make a quick, unorthodox throw. The mental creep, I would imagine, is real.

Take it from Matt Hasselback - the guy who spent 3 years playing on a partially torn labrum in his off-shoulder before ultimately getting surgery as it got worse. He started getting other injuries due to the body compensating for it. He said he tried it - playing with that harness makes it impossible to be accurate on your throws. He said you either play healthy without the harness or get surgery.

I have to imagine simply knowing your accuracy is severely hampered would wear on your own mindset and affect decision-making. Do you attempt to make that throw that you probably can't make, or do you start panicking in the pocket? Blah blah blah, it's speculation but I think warrants consideration when talking about how the injury affects other parts of his game.

The Baker Mayfield apologists will excuse his 2021 performance on the shoulder injury. That still doesn't explain how his performance fell even further from 2018 to 2019 as compared to 2020 to 2021, unless you're blaming Freddie Kitchen for the 2019 failure. The batted balls, misreads, INT's- is that Freddie's fault, the left shoulder injury, or who's to blame for that? Point being, eventually, you run out of excuses and people or things to blame....

 

[Vee-Rex]

The Baker Mayfield apologists will excuse his 2021 performance on the shoulder injury. That still doesn't explain how his performance fell even further from 2018 to 2019 as compared to 2020 to 2021, unless you're blaming Freddie Kitchen for the 2019 failure. The battled balls, misreads, INT's- is that Freddie's fault, the left shoulder injury, or who's to blame for that? Point being, eventually, you run out of excuses and people or things to blame....

How do you go from asking a question to ranting about excuses when someone tries to provide an answer to said question?

Edit: Okay, I realize you were a different person. Your posts are pretty damn similar - but no excuses were being made, I was simply addressing the question.

 

[Los216]

How do you go from asking a question to ranting about excuses when someone tries to provide an answer to said question?

Probably because the answer sounds like an excuse

 

[Vee-Rex]

Probably because the answer sounds like an excuse

A little reading comprehension might go a long way to helping you with that.

 

[PIP]

I'm speculating, but I'd say quite a bit. If you aren't able to maneuver or throw as well, it's easy to forego even attempting to make additional reads if you are worried about having to make a quick, unorthodox throw. The mental creep, I would imagine, is real.

Take it from Matt Hasselback - the guy who spent 3 years playing on a partially torn labrum in his off-shoulder before ultimately getting surgery as it got worse. He started getting other injuries due to the body compensating for it. He said he tried it - playing with that harness makes it impossible to be accurate on your throws. He said you either play healthy without the harness or get surgery.

I have to imagine simply knowing your accuracy is severely hampered would wear on your own mindset and affect decision-making. Do you attempt to make that throw that you probably can't make, or do you start panicking in the pocket? Blah blah blah, it's speculation but I think warrants consideration when talking about how the injury affects other parts of his game.

But we have seen several examples of these throws and inabilities from 2018-2020 when the shoulder was not an issue.

What I’m more concerned with than anything in that regard is those plays were happening with a pretty healthy and talented roster.

All QB’s need that at their disposal, but someone who is limited with physical gifts and is not an overall good decision maker needs that more than most…

So unless Baker has elite talent all around him I’m not sure just how effective he’s going to be… couple that with paying the man and him eating a majority of the cap moving forward and it becomes an issue… He can navigate the talent around him perhaps to success — he’s not gonna be able to make the team a success on his play and if you can’t pay top tier players to put around him — well you’re sitting there with a high paid QB who isn’t good enough…

Tough spot…

 

[Vee-Rex]

But we have seen several examples of these throws and inabilities from 2018-2020 when the shoulder was not an issue.

Less in 2020 compared to the years prior, but I agree. Which is why he won't be extended this offseason.

What I’m more concerned with than anything in that regard is those plays were happening with a pretty healthy and talented roster.

All QB’s need that at their disposal, but someone who is limited with physical gifts and is not an overall good decision maker needs that more than most…

So unless Baker has elite talent all around him I’m not sure just how effective he’s going to be… couple that with paying the man and him eating a majority of the cap moving forward and it becomes an issue… He can navigate the talent around him perhaps to success — he’s not gonna be able to make the team a success on his play and if you can’t pay top tier players to put around him — well you’re sitting there with a high paid QB who isn’t good enough…

Tough spot…

Right, which is why he won't be extended this offseason.

 

[Los216]

I really don't understand people who think we're stuck with Baker and we should just accept the 2020 version of him like that's not his peak

 

[Selby]

But is the 2020 version of Baker better than Herbert this season?

I don't know, and I really don't care enough to get into hypotheticals about it. I just find it amusing you said if 2020 Baker Mayfield used a time machine to travel forward to this season he wouldn't be able to win a playoff game against a QB that didn't even make the playoffs.

Carry on.

 

[Vee-Rex]

I really don't understand people who think we're stuck with Baker and we should just accept the 2020 version of him like that's not his peak

Feel free to ask me directly if I'm the person you're addressing.

I don't think we're stuck with Baker - I've advocated both trading for QBs and drafting QBs. I'm just not ready to cut him for Cam Newton like some people, if you get my drift.