(No Longer) Joe Woods’ Defense

Ohio said:

Playing defense in a one score game in that situation is a whole lot different than playing defense in a two score game.

When you're up multiple scores in that situation, it calls for true Schottenheimer prevent defense. Simply don't get beat deep, give them their 10-15 yard completions and make them burn clock. You're playing the clock more than anything else. Literally the only thing you can't do is let them score right away by beating you deep. And, well....we all know what happened.

Denzel Ward (or literally anyone else for that matter) being responsible for the flat in that situation is a fireable offence in and of itself. Who gives a flying fuck about the flat when you're up 13 with 1:55 to go? You should want the offense to throw in the flat in that situation. The fact we were wasting a body, let alone our best DB, in the flat in that situation is inexcusable.

The more I digest this game, the more I place the blame on coaching. A casual Madden player could have called a better defense in this game. This is a double digit victory if the Browns do nothing but play 2 man under the entire game. The Jets did absolutely nothing to win this game; the Browns lost it completely on their own. It's sickening.

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But was Ward even supposed to be in the flat?

I don't think it will be clear which defense the Browns were in since several DBs have been asked, and we are still not sure.


Anthony Walker has struggled getting the communication to the entire team consistently. Might be time to give the gig to JJ3, who was signal caller in L.A.

Heck, maybe Woods needs to get the message in faster, but I'm hearing this is a busted coverage due to the DBs guessing the playcall.

Randolphkeys said:

But was Ward even supposed to be in the flat?

I don't think it will be clear which defense the Browns were in since several DBs have been asked, and we are still not sure.

Browns linebacker Anthony Walker Jr. takes blame for loss to Jets, is ready for redemption in Week 3

Walker Jr. did not mince words in explaining his role in the #Browns’ latest loss.

brownswire.usatoday.com

Anthony Walker has struggled getting the communication to the entire team consistently. Might be time to give the gig to JJ3, who was signal caller in L.A.

Heck, maybe Woods needs to get the message in faster, but I'm hearing this is a busted coverage due to the DBs guessing the playcall.

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Thanks for sharing those quotes from Walker, I hadn't heard that. Since the game I honestly haven't ingested anything Browns-related outside of this website and don't intend to for awhile.

Ultimately though, Woods is responsible for the defense. If Walker can't get the calls relayed, why is he being given that responsibility? Why are we waiting until a self-inflicted loss, after the 20th broken coverage, to address the issue?

If I watched that game not knowing any of the players on either team, I would have thought that the Browns were tanking and lost that game on purpose. That is how bad it was. It was mathematically impossible to lose that game without intending to do so. That is your 2022 Browns defense right now.

No matter what lens you look through at this situation - the players very clearly do not understand where they should be. They are consistently out of position and confused. That is a coaching issue, especially when considering our personnel. This isn't a team of rookies. We have experienced vets and elite players in this secondary roaming around in no man's land while receivers are running wild.

I'm honestly in disbelief that we're here right now with this defense. It simply does not make sense. It feels like we're living in an alternate reality. What we all witnessed yesterday...it is...wrong. This defense is wrong.

Randolphkeys said:

But was Ward even supposed to be in the flat?

I don't think it will be clear which defense the Browns were in since several DBs have been asked, and we are still not sure.

Browns linebacker Anthony Walker Jr. takes blame for loss to Jets, is ready for redemption in Week 3

Walker Jr. did not mince words in explaining his role in the #Browns’ latest loss.

brownswire.usatoday.com

Anthony Walker has struggled getting the communication to the entire team consistently. Might be time to give the gig to JJ3, who was signal caller in L.A.

Heck, maybe Woods needs to get the message in faster, but I'm hearing this is a busted coverage due to the DBs guessing the playcall.

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So coaching then?

Guess I'm just a stupid football fan but Ward is a top corner in the league, Newsome can hold his own, and we're ass at communicating zone assignments both pre-play and during play. Maybe run man and pressure the qb some?

Or just keep giving up 7-10 yards a pass until we bust coverage and get toasted. Whatever. Lol

SuperSurge said:

Guess I'm just a stupid football fan but Ward is a top corner in the league, Newsome can hold his own, and we're ass at communicating zone assignments both pre-play and during play. Maybe run man and pressure the qb some?

Or just keep giving up 7-10 yards a pass until we bust coverage and get toasted. Whatever. Lol

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You cannot play man much more than 30% in the NFL and survive.

However, if Ward is supposed to be in cover 3/4 and he somehow thinks he's in 2/flat coverage, then a communication either doesn't work or the communication is too similar. Either way, it goes back to design which is a coaching issue.

They must get it figured out. Football isn't that hard.

Amherstcavsfan said:

You cannot play man much more than 30% in the NFL and survive.

However, if Ward is supposed to be in cover 3/4 and he somehow thinks he's in 2/flat coverage, then a communication either doesn't work or the communication is too similar. Either way, it goes back to design which is a coaching issue.

They must get it figured out. Football isn't that hard.

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Yeah I don't expect to play man all game, but when we aren't pressuring Flacco, we aren't confusing their rookie tackle with different looks, maybe mix it up from time to time.

Would expect Joe to have a better feel for how the game is playing out and try to adjust.

Randolphkeys said:

Can't disagree - Jets schemed Wilson open, if the Browns were in the wrong defense for that offensive alignment, call a time out. Game is on the line.

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It seems every time KS calls a timeout, the team isn't prepared the next play. We called a timeout before the onside kick and our special teams couldn't perform. I blame that in Priefer, but KS keeps him around after a couple years of below average performance.

Amherstcavsfan said:

You cannot play man much more than 30% in the NFL and survive.

However, if Ward is supposed to be in cover 3/4 and he somehow thinks he's in 2/flat coverage, then a communication either doesn't work or the communication is too similar. Either way, it goes back to design which is a coaching issue.

They must get it figured out. Football isn't that hard.

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Bingo.

Of course the players fucked up, anyone with two eyes can see that so IMO that part goes without saying.

What we're trying to determine is WHY they fucked up because it certainly doesn't seem like Ward and Newsome and Johnson (Delpit we'll see) are bad players who are just getting beat because they stink.

It's easy to say "communication issues" as a blanket statement, but what are the communication issues? What's causing them? How much can coaching impact that?

This isn't a "this is entirely Joe Woods' fault" or "this is entirely the players fault" - it's not an either or situation.

SuperSurge said:

Yeah I don't expect to play man all game, but when we aren't pressuring Flacco, we aren't confusing their rookie tackle with different looks, maybe mix it up from time to time.

Would expect Joe to have a better feel for how the game is playing out and try to adjust.

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My question is, what did Joe try to call?

Half the defense was playing off deep coverage while at least Ward was in the flat.

Amherstcavsfan said:

My question is, what did Joe try to call?

Half the defense was playing off deep coverage while at least Ward was in the flat.

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True, would need to know that first.

I think I need to say something about man to man defense. I understand that you can't play m2m all game. Duh. I get that we run a zone scheme most of the time. Okay. I cannot accept that we have Denzel Ward and Greg Newsome as our starting Corners and Martin Emerson as a very physical rookie Corner and we are playing this much zone.

Let you best players exercise their best strengths. Remember when we used to complain about Myles Garrett and Vernon dropping in coverage in Gregggggg Williams defense? remember the HOU game in HOU where Baker had a terrible first half but there was like 6 plays where Myles dropped in coverage instead of rushing Deshaun Watson? We all thought that was stupid and a mismanagement of Myles Garrett's skills. It seems like we never drop Myles Garrett in coverage now which nobody seems to complain about.

So why the f**c are we playing Ward and Newsome in zone as much as we are? And it's not like we're doing it against the elite QB's in the league who can make you pay 1 on 1. This is Joe Flacco and Baker Mayfield. Man the fuck up on the outside. DJ Moore and Robbie Anderson are good WR's but at the end of the day if it's man 2 man, give me Ward and Newsome. I like our guys. Corey Davis is a journeyman WR. Garrett Wilson is a freaking rookie. Hell yeah I like our guys in that situation too.

CAR started a rookie LT. NYJ started a 3rd string LT. WE PLAYED TOO MUCH ZONE!!!!!!!

And no, I don't need to hear any of the breakdowns about how playing zone is what's hot in the league right now. Why? Because every team in the league doesn't have two really awesome man 2 man Corners like we do.

Grant Delphit is not good in coverage. That's not even his strength. He's a physical guy that should be playing closer to the LOS. Maybe not as much in Zone eh? JOK is better in coverage than Delphit. So run more dime packages.

Lastly, PIT has a terrible O-Line and a below average QB. SWITCH UP THE FREAKING GAMEPLAN FOR THIS GAME. ATTACK THAT O-LINE AND MAKE MITCH TRUBISKY BEAT YOU. MAKE MITCH TRUBISKY THROW INTO MAN COVERAGE AGAINST WARD AND NEWSOME. BLITZ JOK MORE.

COME THE FUCK ON MAN.

I'm hot

The NFL actually put together a pretty decent visual graphic based around PFF coverage analysis from last year:




I think us and Green Bay stand out as being obsessively slanted toward cover 3/4/6 zones. This meets the eye test. The Browns are so consistent and vanilla in their soft coverage schemes that the opposing QB gets comfortable. I want the opposing QB uncertain--I want him to be guessing every play what we could throw at him. I want players moving around and coverages to be disguised pre-snap. Every tenth of a second you can make an opposing QB hold onto the ball because he's uncertain is a win in the NFL. This is exactly what I want out of my defensive coordinator--someone who is going to take every tenth of a second he can from the QB.

This is exactly what Joe Woods is not.

I don't think that Woods can succeed at this level unless he re-invents himself dramatically. If you're going to play these soft zone schemes this regularly, you have to attack the opponent when you win. What we've seen time-and-time-again is that, even if we win and get the opponent into third and long, he doesn't deviate--he doesn't attack. He just gives the opponent the same easy, comfortable reads and watches as they convert. In his mind, he's telling himself that he called the right defense--but in reality, he's consistently fucking up.

So yes, I'm calling for Joe Woods's head. I'm not expecting the overall scheme to change. We can keep our base defense and everything we've worked on in training camp. However, when the defense wins, or the offense screws up, and we get them in a high leverage situation (like third and 10 with the game on the line), I need a defensive coordinator who can dial up the intensity and make the opposing QB uncomfortable. Joe Woods proved to me on Sunday that he isn't that man.


Note: "Dial up intensity" does not necessarily mean blitzing. It means doing things on the field to make the opposing QB uncomfortable and uncertain.

JOK is not even being used like the jack of all trades he was billed to be. Grant Delphit is playing too far away from the LOS. We should blitz our LB's and Nickelbacks more to put more pressure on the QB. This will require us to play more man coverage though which seems to be something that Joe Woods doesn't want to do.

Los216 said:

JOK is not even being used like the jack of all trades he was billed to be.

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I'd chill it on this one. JOK has been incredible.