2022 Minor League Thread

Tondo said:

Yeah, I even had to remind Meisel of that when he mentioned Oscar as biggest R5 loss should there be a draft.

And still, even Undermanning on Bally keep spewing this nonsense, how lucky we got we didn't lose Oscar. The whole league slept on him, probably thinking that if Cleveland, a team of dire OF need, won't roster him, he's not worth it. We might have to thank the Ka'ai Tom burn that Oscar didn't sign anywhere else.

Oh, and the entire scouting community has missed the boat on him too, not only Bimbo, all internet outlets. I called Longenhagen out in the comments for missing out on Brennan and Gonzo. For some reason, those two didn't even make the Top 70 org cut on FG.

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Meh.

The scouting on Oscar has been pretty spot on. Lot of swing and miss and chase on breaking pitches, getting himself out against MLB breaking pitches at a high rate, poor defensively in the OF.

Thing that he is doing better than everyone expected is what happens when he does make contact with breaking pitches on those occasions someone makes a mistake to him. He is killing mistake pitches at a very high rate, specifically mistakes made with sliders. If you watched his entire career in the minors this is without a doubt not the norm for him as a hitter and anyone who would have said otherwise was just reading box scores.

Coincidentally, the one area most thought he would thrive at because its what he was best at throughout his entire minors career was ambushing fastballs over the plate the moment he got his 1st one in the zone. He is hitting very poorly against FBs at the MLB level in comparison to his peers. Gives you some hope that there is still a lot of untapped potential there at the MLB level.

If you can produce vs FBs and hammer mistake breaking pitches, all of the swing and miss and chase issues no longer matter.

BimboColesHair said:

Meh.

The scouting on Oscar has been pretty spot on. Lot of swing and miss and chase on breaking pitches, getting himself out against MLB breaking pitches at a high rate, poor defensively in the OF.

Thing that he is doing better than everyone expected is what happens when he does make contact with breaking pitches on those occasions someone makes a mistake to him. He is killing mistake pitches at a very high rate, specifically mistakes made with sliders. If you watched his entire career in the minors this is without a doubt not the norm for him as a hitter and anyone who would have said otherwise was just reading box scores.

Coincidentally, the one area most thought he would thrive at because its what he was best at throughout his entire minors career was ambushing fastballs over the plate the moment he got his 1st one in the zone. He is hitting very poorly against FBs at the MLB level in comparison to his peers. Gives you some hope that there is still a lot of untapped potential there at the MLB level.

If you can produce vs FBs and hammer mistake breaking pitches, all of the swing and miss and chase issues no longer matter.

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It really sounds like he focused more on weakness from the minors rather than his strengths once he may it to the pros... His batting style, in a sense, wasn't near what the eye test and the scouting reports said for the minors. No one minds at all since he is doing well....

Maybe he misses out on some fastballs to crush because he's looking for breaking pitches (knowing or being told that's what he needs to do better). Does that make sense?

And if so, how/when do we get your best of both worlds scenario? Simply more reps/experience?

What amazes me about Gonzalez is how good his BA is (and has been in minors), despite looking horrible in so many ABs. He's a lot like Amed in that regard, or better: Harold Ramirez, just with considerably more power.

Tondo said:

Maybe he misses out on some fastballs to crush because he's looking for breaking pitches (knowing or being told that's what he needs to do better). Does that make sense?

And if so, how/when do we get your best of both worlds scenario? Simply more reps/experience?

What amazes me about Gonzalez is how good his BA is (and has been in minors), despite looking horrible in so many ABs. He's a lot like Amed in that regard, or better: Harold Ramirez, just with considerably more power.

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I don't think he his sitting offspeed/reacting hard on anything until he sees 2 strike counts, and even then I am skeptical. Almost all of his hits off hanging breaking pitches he tends to hook and pull the ball down the LF line, which tells you he is way out in front of it.

He's just getting attacked up in the zone with FBs and isn't hitting them.

Not like he is putting up horrible numbers. A .732 OPS vs 4 seem FBs. But league average vs 4 seemers is sitting right around .790 with a 15% whiff rate. Oscar is whiffing on 27.5%. Again, not horrible for him, but it is far and away the pitch he is struggling to produce against the most. And its the pitch he sees the most.

It comes with experience and seeing more and more big league pitches.

It has been apparent recently just by watching that he isn't getting to those high FBs very well. Aren't big league fastballs quite a bit faster on average too? I wonder if just being around them for a while gives you that extra step in getting on top of them.

BimboColesHair said:

Oscar and Cantillo weren't getting picked in the Rule 5.

Oscar had a chance to sign literally anywhere and no one showed any interest in him. You think a team would have burned a Rule 5 pick on him when they could have signed him outright and chose not to?

Quit using hindsight to make an argument.

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Hindsight is saying that since we didn't lose anybody in R5 last year, it wasn't a problem...lol.

On my part it's never been hindsight. I've been talking about this for almost two years.

So, in foresight, which kids are you willing to risk losing this year?

Tondo said:

Maybe he misses out on some fastballs to crush because he's looking for breaking pitches (knowing or being told that's what he needs to do better). Does that make sense?

And if so, how/when do we get your best of both worlds scenario? Simply more reps/experience?

What amazes me about Gonzalez is how good his BA is (and has been in minors), despite looking horrible in so many ABs. He's a lot like Amed in that regard, or better: Harold Ramirez, just with considerably more power.

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hmmm...

the best wrists in all of baseball of all time might have been Roberto Clemente's.. even when he was absolutely fooled.. he had the ability to keep his hands back and the bat in the zone long enough to make contact.. Almost every time.. that contact was barreled.. While OG's not Roberto Clemente.. that's the kind of wrists the OG has.. btw.. Hank Aaron had the same kind of wrist action.. it's not a learned skill, btw..

We have such a beautiful problem here.

Oscar has been punishing sliders middle and away by hooking them to left as Bimbo said. It seems to me pitchers are busting him up and in with fastballs and having a lot of success. When you're 6'4" and able to drive outside pitches it makes sense to jam you.

He did line a high fastball over the center field wall the other night so hopefully we'll see more of that, especially since he had success hitting fastballs in the minors. He must be sitting on breaking balls to have a higher than average swing-and-miss on fastballs. He needs to lay off the high heat out of the zone to get ahead in the count and force the pitcher to come down.

What I love about Oscar is his ability to hit with two strikes. He shortens up and goes with the pitch. He hit .286 in August and .300 so far in September which tells me pitchers haven't figured out a consistently effective way to get him out.

so much talent is still coming

tristan+kyrie=$ said:

so much talent is still coming

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Bibee getting some love! We told BTV guys he would be a top 100 prospect lol

#44 Bo Naylor's possible doppleganger...

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/09/mets-reportedly-promoting-francisco-alvarez.html

BimboColesHair said:

I think they sneak him [Bo Naylor] on for the Royals series.

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@DJTJ And Bo is on the taxi squad and up in Cleveland.

The Mets have promoted young Francisco Alvarez up to their major league club. This promotion appears to be very similar to what could be a promotion of Bo Naylor onto the Guardians squad.. perhaps, for the one or two of the Royals games starting tonight..

Interesting that both clubs are promoting early 20 something catchers.. (they are less than 14 months apart in age) and have similar numbers in their 2022 results..

Bo Naylor: .263/.392/.888
52 games @ AA 170 AB's 46 Hits, 20 were XBH's, 45 walks 46 K's .271/.427/.898
66 games @ AAA 245 AB's 63 Hits, 31 were XBH's, 37 walks 75 K's .257/.366/.880

Francisco Alvarez. .260/.374/.885
67 games @ AA 253 AB's 70 Hits, 34 were XBH's, 36 walks 71 K's .277/.368/.921
45 games @ AAA 158 AB's 37 Hits, 15 were XBH's, 34 walks 52 K's .234/.382/.825

Spooky how close these two guys are... offensively.. Bo is a little better on the basepaths. Alvarez is a little worse against better pitching.. Defensively.. Alvarez & Naylor are almost indistinguishable.. They're both showing the ability to stay behind the dish at the highest levels as an every day back stop. Alvarez may be a little better blocking pitches.. Naylor may be a little better calling a game..

Should be interesting to see how they do going forward..

Thoughts...

CATS44 said:

Uh, lets see now....hmm.

Andres Gimenez was higher rated than Valera, but, of course had a better hit tool and didn't K near as much.

But you want failures, huh?

Lets start with Zimmer. He was higher rated than Valera.

And how about Clint Jackson Frazier?

Chisenhall was higher rated, but he didn't K nearly as much. What he couldn't do as a youngster was hit same handed pitching...and that didn't improve in the Bigs.

But do you really need a list of Cleveland players that were productive in the Bigs?

Start with Sandy, Baerga, and Belle....and anybody up to Jose and now Gimenez. Pick out the ones whose MiLB K rates were over 25%.

You won't find one, but go ahead and look.

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I just want to circle back to this post. Missing a lot of context here Cats.

Zimmer: broke his left hand in September of his rookie season, had to change all of his hitting mechanics because he lost almost half of his range of motion with his left wrist and a lot of the feeling in his hand because of the injury. Never was the same after that injury offensively. Even now he struggles to grip a bat with his left hand. Flashed some loud tools his rookie season and never got to build off it.

Frazier: had an .806 OPS through his first 162 MLB games at the age of 24, then got concussed so bad he almost went blind. On top of almost going blind, it caused what I heard was similar symptoms to what someone with dementia experiences. Kid had days where he couldn't remember how he got to the ballpark.

Calling kids a failure when they had to deal with shit like that is ridiculous. Hope you realize that.

BimboColesHair said:

I just want to circle back to this post. Missing a lot of context here Cats.

Zimmer: broke his left hand in September of his rookie season, had to change all of his hitting mechanics because he lost almost half of his range of motion with his left wrist and a lot of the feeling in his hand because of the injury. Never was the same after that injury offensively. Even now he struggles to grip a bat with his left hand. Flashed some loud tools his rookie season and never got to build off it.

Frazier: had an .806 OPS through his first 162 MLB games at the age of 24, then got concussed so bad he almost went blind. On top of almost going blind, it caused what I heard was similar symptoms to what someone with dementia experiences. Kid had days where he couldn't remember how he got to the ballpark.

Calling kids a failure when they had to deal with shit like that is ridiculous. Hope you realize that.

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It sounds funny, but do you think Zimmer could learn to hit right handed? I know that's not ideal, but wouldnt that help offset some of the issues with his hand.

BimboColesHair said:

I just want to circle back to this post. Missing a lot of context here Cats.

Zimmer: broke his left hand in September of his rookie season, had to change all of his hitting mechanics because he lost almost half of his range of motion with his left wrist and a lot of the feeling in his hand because of the injury. Never was the same after that injury offensively. Even now he struggles to grip a bat with his left hand. Flashed some loud tools his rookie season and never got to build off it.

Frazier: had an .806 OPS through his first 162 MLB games at the age of 24, then got concussed so bad he almost went blind. On top of almost going blind, it caused what I heard was similar symptoms to what someone with dementia experiences. Kid had days where he couldn't remember how he got to the ballpark.

Calling kids a failure when they had to deal with shit like that is ridiculous. Hope you realize that.

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...hmm...

...you can't realize what you are unaware of.. perhaps a little lighter touch here would be in order...

..btw.. it doesn't change what the kid is going through.. just the evaluation of those who don't know..