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WWE/NXT/AEW/NJPW Thread

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Derek said:
I really can’t think of any examples of this. Could you provide some?

AEW definitely has some smaller midcard feuds, but I consider that a good things and something that WWE is sorely lacking.


They built to that break up for nearly a year focused mostly on the Jack/Christian aspect, but yes, Jack had been the one eating the pins.

Also, prior to Christian managing them, they had achieved nothing of significance. With him, they won gold. Makes sense that Luch would listen to Christian.

They’ve also been selling the fact that Christian is a manipulator.

Why can’t he lose any time soon? I agree the Garcia ROH title win is a little ways off, but right now they’re building dissension by having Guevara take the spot as Jericho’s right hand man and getting a spot in the title match.

They’re even giving Sammy the same matches Garcia had with Danielson.

They’ll probably have Garcia go through Guevara before he gets to Jericho.

Death Triangle formed about two and a half years ago when PAC was feuding with Orange Cassidy and the Best Friends.

To each their own regarding match style, but the three are widely considered to be some of the top in-ring workers in the world.

The Lucha Bros sometimes lose me in their tag matches, but PAC is just all-around great with not only the moves, but the psychology as well.

His matches with OC for the All-Atlantic Title were great for me.

Again, to each their own regarding match styles, but OC is another guy that’s widely respected for his in-ring work.

He’s also not me of the most character driven wrestlers around right now. He just completed a multi-year journey of chasing gold and coming up short just to finally win the big one against a long-time rival.

I think open challenges are a good way to keep a guy active and over while you build to their next real feud.

Ultimately, I don’t think AEW is geared toward you. A lot of their in-ring styles don’t seem to match your taste.

Still, I think you’re underselling their story telling, and I think that’s because you’re a casual fan (your words).

If you’re not watching every week, you’re going to miss some of the long-term storytelling they do.

Many of the stories being sold had subtle seeds planted months ago, and they slowly grew it to the feud we see now. Some of them are surface level, sure, those are the midcard/smaller feuds like WarJoe against The Embassy or The Acclaimed against The Varsity Athletes.

Quite frankly, pro wrestling is a very subjective form of entertainment. AEW provides much more of what I’m looking for than WWE, but I still watch WWE because they have some entertaining stuff, too.

Sami Zayn is the most over guy in wrestling right now, and I watch every week just to see what he does next. I’m also a big Rollins guy.

They’ve rebuilt some characters in a great way recently (Gunther, Sheamus, KO), but they still have the tendency to ignore everything that isn’t the main event. Nothing else is really going on outside of Bloodline/Brutes and Bayley/Bianca (which shouldn’t even still be going since Bayley keeps losing clean).
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I do enjoy AEW tho. They do alot of stuff i like. Their matches while lacking in psychology are FUN. MJF is the best young talent in the game right now.

Just the stories don’t really hit me as good as good WWE stories do. In WWE there’s usually a reason for every feud and things move in a logical manner. You could see a feud start on AEW on August 1st for example and that feud not have a decent profession until months later.
 
Kizzle said:
I do enjoy AEW tho. They do alot of stuff i like. Their matches while lacking in psychology are FUN. MJF is the best young talent in the game right now.
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I don’t agree that AEW matches lack psychology, but I’m glad they’re still fun for you. That’s what this is all about.
Kizzle said:
Just the stories don’t really hit me as good as good WWE stories do.
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That’s fair. Again, it’s all subjective about what you enjoy.
Kizzle said:
In WWE there’s usually a reason for every feud and things move in a logical manner. You could see a feud start on AEW on August 1st for example and that feud not have a decent profession until months later.
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This I don’t understand though. Can you point to a feud that seemed illogical to you in AEW to give me a better understanding?

And long-term storytelling is typically considered a good thing. That’s what makes things interesting. Guys aren’t just turning on each other on a whim. They build to it for months.

Right now we’re watching Swerve lose his damn mind while Keith Lee tries to keep the peace and win the tag titles with him. Their impending feud will be a good one.
 
*AEW takes a literal shit in the ring*

Everyone Else: This is awful

@Derek: Y'all just don't get it. Some of us like the taste of shit!

:chuckle:
 
CBBI said:
*AEW takes a literal shit in the ring*

Everyone Else: This is awful

@Derek: Y'all just don't get it. Some of us like the taste of shit!

:chuckle:
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Derek: Acts reasonable and has a conversation with someone about entertainment preferences.

CBBI: Brings nothing to the table and acts like a chode.
 
Derek said:
Derek: Acts reasonable and has a conversation with someone about entertainment preferences.

CBBI: Brings nothing to the table and acts like a chode.
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Some people gain confidence in their own preferences by engaging in tribalism against other people’s preferences. Sad.
 
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pr26 said:
Some people gain confidence in their own preferences by being engaging in tribalism against other people’s preferences. Sad.
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There’s a long list of things working and not working for me that stretches across both companies.

I just find that most critiques I see about both AEW and WWE are both very vague, and that it’s a better conversation when we can talk specifics.

If you tell me AEW doesn’t tell stories, that’s false. You might not like the stories, and that’s a far more interesting topic of conversation that helps us understand each other’s likes and dislikes.
 
Derek said:
There’s a long list of things working and not working for me that stretches across both companies.

I just find that most critiques I see about both AEW and WWE are both very vague, and that it’s a better conversation when we can talk specifics.

If you tell me AEW doesn’t tell stories, that’s false. You might not like the stories, and that’s a far more interesting topic of conversation that helps us understand each other’s likes and dislikes.
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I also feel like a lot of rabid AEW criticism comes from either avid WWE fans or casuals whose main exposure to wrestling comes from WWE. Makes sense, biggest name in wrestling and for a long time the ONLY game in town. If that’s your frame of reference, I get why AEW booking and storytelling might be off putting.

For me, AEW takes the best of my fav eras. The vibe of peak WCW nitro with booking of international talents I’ve never gotten to see. Crazy spots that you see on the indies and prime TNA x-division. Hardcore spots that remind me of the best of ECW. Promos that bring me back to the attitude era.

Different strokes for different folks. If you want WWE booking style and storytelling, I have great news for you…you can watch it! Doesn’t mean you have to hate on others who like something different than you.
 
Derek said:
I really can’t think of any examples of this. Could you provide some?

AEW definitely has some smaller midcard feuds, but I consider that a good things and something that WWE is sorely lacking.


They built to that break up for nearly a year focused mostly on the Jack/Christian aspect, but yes, Jack had been the one eating the pins.

Also, prior to Christian managing them, they had achieved nothing of significance. With him, they won gold. Makes sense that Luch would listen to Christian.

They’ve also been selling the fact that Christian is a manipulator.

Why can’t he lose any time soon? I agree the Garcia ROH title win is a little ways off, but right now they’re building dissension by having Guevara take the spot as Jericho’s right hand man and getting a spot in the title match.

They’re even giving Sammy the same matches Garcia had with Danielson.

They’ll probably have Garcia go through Guevara before he gets to Jericho.

Death Triangle formed about two and a half years ago when PAC was feuding with Orange Cassidy and the Best Friends.

To each their own regarding match style, but the three are widely considered to be some of the top in-ring workers in the world.

The Lucha Bros sometimes lose me in their tag matches, but PAC is just all-around great with not only the moves, but the psychology as well.

His matches with OC for the All-Atlantic Title were great for me.

Again, to each their own regarding match styles, but OC is another guy that’s widely respected for his in-ring work.

He’s also one of the most character driven wrestlers around right now. He just completed a multi-year journey of chasing gold and coming up short just to finally win the big one against a long-time rival.

I think open challenges are a good way to keep a guy active and over while you build to their next real feud.

Ultimately, I don’t think AEW is geared toward you. A lot of their in-ring styles don’t seem to match your taste.

Still, I think you’re underselling their story telling, and I think that’s because you’re a casual fan (your words).

If you’re not watching every week, you’re going to miss some of the long-term storytelling they do.

Many of the stories being sold had subtle seeds planted months ago, and they slowly grew it to the feud we see now. Some of them are surface level, sure, those are the midcard/smaller feuds like WarJoe against The Embassy or The Acclaimed against The Varsity Athletes.

Quite frankly, pro wrestling is a very subjective form of entertainment. AEW provides much more of what I’m looking for than WWE, but I still watch WWE because they have some entertaining stuff, too.

Sami Zayn is the most over guy in wrestling right now, and I watch every week just to see what he does next. I’m also a big Rollins guy.

They’ve rebuilt some characters in a great way recently (Gunther, Sheamus, KO), but they still have the tendency to ignore everything that isn’t the main event. Nothing else is really going on outside of Bloodline/Brutes and Bayley/Bianca (which shouldn’t even still be going since Bayley keeps losing clean).
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I don’t watch actively and am prefacing this.

The reason they’ve rebuilt characters is simply time. There’s no other thing to it. Good talent, when given time, get an audience. Both sides.

AEW unfortunately spent a year giving time to someone who probably wasn’t needed, and I say that as someone who actively was excited, and IMO that probably hurts the brand having to re-devote time to others who were unintentionally neglected.
 
Things that aren’t working for me:
- WarJoe (and Wardlow’s booking in general)

I’m ready to get the TNT title onto Hobbs and hope that whatever Wardlow does next re-energizes him.

- Sammy Guevara

His matches are typically quite entertaining, but they fudged up his face turn so badly when the Inner Circle initially disbanded that I struggle to care about anything he does outside of using him as a vehicle to get others over.

- Why does Rush always lose?

I love that guy. Bring back Dragon Lee and see if they can find magic as a tag team. All the HFO/AFO stuff was lame. They were on the right track when LFI, but they were still losing and then Andrade screwed it all up completely.

- Where’s Miro?

I’m willing to give them a pass on this if he returns when the House of Black does and resumes their feud.

- What are they doing with Private Party and Matt Hardy?

I don’t really care about Hardy, but they’re all owned by The Firm now?

- Jay Lethal is way more interesting/fun as a face

Drop Sonjay and Singh and bring back Black Machismo.

- Burying the Varsity Blonds

Might as well just drop Griff and pair Pillman with Brock Anderson to capitalize on some Horsemen nostalgia.

- Why isn’t KO doing anything?

He’s came back as the prizefighter, banged out some killer promos and matches and then disappeared. He should be feuding with Rollins over the US Title or doing something big.

- Baron Corbin/JBL

Corbin has the makings of a top heel, but everything they’ve done with him just keeps falling flat.

- Judgment Day

I like Balor, Priest, and Ripley. So, maybe Dom is just ruining it all for me, but it really wasn’t working for me even before Dom joined. Split them up. Priest has been hurt the most by this Vince-created faction.

- Bray Wyatt

Total snooze fest for me, and I don’t care at all about what they’re doing. Still time to save it. I loved cult leader Bray.

- Bobby Lashley’s feud with Brock

Brock, who has been a face for a while, shows up out of nowhere and costs Lashley his US Title. Brock then wins the match (despite getting his ass kicked), and Lashley goes right back to chasing the US Title. Brock’s part-time schedule is really what’s to blame here.

- Stop having Alpha Academy lose so much

I get it, they’re good workers, and that helps get others over. Both these guys have potential as a team and as individuals though. Push them!

- Street Profits

I feel like they’re stuck in an endless cycle of doing the same stuff over and over. Give them something new. A split is the easiest idea, but I’m open to more creative ways to make them fresh again.

- Gargano/Miz/Lumis

Miz was paying Lumis? Wtf
Gargano’s main roster character hasn’t clicked for me. He needs to be putting on bangers and playing the underdog.

- Matt Riddle

He was on fire feuding with the Bloodline, and had a really good feud with Rollins, but I feel like they missed their chance to capitalize on his momentum coming off the RK-Bro stuff.

- Why does Bayley keep losing?

I think she’s doing great work on the mic and in the ring, but they keep having her lose! Should have taken the title off Bianca already, in my opinion.

- Braun Strowman

I have no suggestions. Nothing he does interests me and I hate when they have him occasionally destroy the entire tag division.

- Karrion Kross/Drew McIntyre

I prefer Scottish Psychopath Drew (get rid of the sword) and I don’t understand the appeal of Karrion Kross. He’s not interesting to me on the mic or in the ring.

- Hit Row beating Legado del Fantasma

Hit Row is a fine low/midcard team, but even with Nakamura on their team, Legado should be picking up wins and establishing themselves.
 
Derek said:
Things that aren’t working for me:
- WarJoe (and Wardlow’s booking in general)

I’m ready to get the TNT title onto Hobbs and hope that whatever Wardlow does next re-energizes him.

- Sammy Guevara

His matches are typically quite entertaining, but they fudged up his face turn so badly when the Inner Circle initially disbanded that I struggle to care about anything he does outside of using him as a vehicle to get others over.

- Why does Rush always lose?

I love that guy. Bring back Dragon Lee and see if they can find magic as a tag team. All the HFO/AFO stuff was lame. They were on the right track when LFI, but they were still losing and then Andrade screwed it all up completely.

- Where’s Miro?

I’m willing to give them a pass on this if he returns when the House of Black does and resumes their feud.

- What are they doing with Private Party and Matt Hardy?

I don’t really care about Hardy, but they’re all owned by The Firm now?

- Jay Lethal is way more interesting/fun as a face

Drop Sonjay and Singh and bring back Black Machismo.

- Burying the Varsity Blonds

Might as well just drop Griff and pair Pillman with Brock Anderson to capitalize on some Horsemen nostalgia.

- Why isn’t KO doing anything?

He’s came back as the prizefighter, banged out some killer promos and matches and then disappeared. He should be feuding with Rollins over the US Title or doing something big.

- Baron Corbin/JBL

Corbin has the makings of a top heel, but everything they’ve done with him just keeps falling flat.

- Judgment Day

I like Balor, Priest, and Ripley. So, maybe Dom is just ruining it all for me, but it really wasn’t working for me even before Dom joined. Split them up. Priest has been hurt the most by this Vince-created faction.

- Bray Wyatt

Total snooze fest for me, and I don’t care at all about what they’re doing. Still time to save it. I loved cult leader Bray.

- Bobby Lashley’s feud with Brock

Brock, who has been a face for a while, shows up out of nowhere and costs Lashley his US Title. Brock then wins the match (despite getting his ass kicked), and Lashley goes right back to chasing the US Title. Brock’s part-time schedule is really what’s to blame here.

- Stop having Alpha Academy lose so much

I get it, they’re good workers, and that helps get others over. Both these guys have potential as a team and as individuals though. Push them!

- Street Profits

I feel like they’re stuck in an endless cycle of doing the same stuff over and over. Give them something new. A split is the easiest idea, but I’m open to more creative ways to make them fresh again.

- Gargano/Miz/Lumis

Miz was paying Lumis? Wtf
Gargano’s main roster character hasn’t clicked for me. He needs to be putting on bangers and playing the underdog.

- Matt Riddle

He was on fire feuding with the Bloodline, and had a really good feud with Rollins, but I feel like they missed their chance to capitalize on his momentum coming off the RK-Bro stuff.

- Why does Bayley keep losing?

I think she’s doing great work on the mic and in the ring, but they keep having her lose! Should have taken the title off Bianca already, in my opinion.

- Braun Strowman

I have no suggestions. Nothing he does interests me and I hate when they have him occasionally destroy the entire tag division.

- Karrion Kross/Drew McIntyre

I prefer Scottish Psychopath Drew (get rid of the sword) and I don’t understand the appeal of Karrion Kross. He’s not interesting to me on the mic or in the ring.

- Hit Row beating Legado del Fantasma

Hit Row is a fine low/midcard team, but even with Nakamura on their team, Legado should be picking up wins and establishing themselves.
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I see clips, and think I’m on board with most of this.

Alpha Academy can go, and they need to exist as they do. Incredibly valuable. Finn Balor is the least believable heel, and I think that’s why it doesn’t work. But the Corbin one, specifically.

Criminally underrated. This JBL thing needed to happen waaaaay earlier, because now it’s just… pointless.

The Gargano feud they teased was the lead that shouldn’t have been buried.
 
Austin Theory is still incredibly young and Vince put him in a position that did not make sense. I feel like he fell in love with his vision of Austin Theory, instead having realistic expectations for what the man can actually do.

This hurts his credibility, but it's like ripping off a bandaid. I only wish they could have let him lose the brief case to someone like Matt Riddle. What a waste.
 
DJTJ said:
I don’t watch actively and am prefacing this.

The reason they’ve rebuilt characters is simply time. There’s no other thing to it. Good talent, when given time, get an audience. Both sides.

AEW unfortunately spent a year giving time to someone who probably wasn’t needed, and I say that as someone who actively was excited, and IMO that probably hurts the brand having to re-devote time to others who were unintentionally neglected.
Click to expand...

Perhaps my biggest criticism of Tony Khan. He might've had a great Plan A with the Summer of Punk leading to MJF taking the title this fall. You need to have a solid plan B that accounts for the potential injury to one of the guys in the storyline. Every storyline should have a natural plan B worst case but best case scenario instead of the shit that has been thrown at the wall the last 4 months.

His plans got fucked and he was lucky he had Jericho and Moxley to dig us out of the hole but Khan was stupid to put all of his creative eggs in one storyline and it was a questionable basket to begin with. Short-sighted.
 
DirtyDan said:
Austin Theory is still incredibly young and Vince put him in a position that did not make sense. I feel like he fell in love with his vision of Austin Theory, instead having realistic expectations for what the man can actually do.

This hurts his credibility, but it's like ripping off a bandaid. I only wish they could have let him lose the brief case to someone like Matt Riddle. What a waste.
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I really thought there was no way they could screw up MITB this past year because Rollins, Riddle, and Zayn all would have been great choices with compelling stories.

Then they added Theory the night of and the rest is history.
 
pr26 said:
I also feel like a lot of rabid AEW criticism comes from either avid WWE fans or casuals whose main exposure to wrestling comes from WWE. Makes sense, biggest name in wrestling and for a long time the ONLY game in town. If that’s your frame of reference, I get why AEW booking and storytelling might be off putting.

For me, AEW takes the best of my fav eras. The vibe of peak WCW nitro with booking of international talents I’ve never gotten to see. Crazy spots that you see on the indies and prime TNA x-division. Hardcore spots that remind me of the best of ECW. Promos that bring me back to the attitude era.

Different strokes for different folks. If you want WWE booking style and storytelling, I have great news for you…you can watch it! Doesn’t mean you have to hate on others who like something different than you.
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The funny thing about that is, there was a clear time under Vince when the product was dogshit and WWE fans (not wrestling fans) were still defending it. Personally, I'm a wrestling fan and I don't care about who or where, as long as the product is good. I hate when people can't appreciate that we're living in one of the best times to be a wrestling fan. You've got WWE, who are at their most consistent since around when Evolution was a mystery :chuckle: And you've got AEW who have their ups and downs, but are only being criticized more because the WWE is doing well. Ultimately, this competition is best for all of us because instead of having people with their heads up their asses, they're both trying to do stuff fans might like.

Agree with pretty much all of your storyline criticisms. Dom is literally one of my least favourite elements of WWE. And to be honest, I haven't been a fan of Rey since his return to the WWE. He's a legend, but it's the same shit over and over again in terms of his matches and storylines. Which makes sense because he's such an underdog. Now, if he turns heel...

Also, Braun... Yeah, he does nothing for me as well. He seems talented enough, but the whole big beefy boy thing is overplayed. Also, he just spews nonsense in promos as well as when he's yelling in the ring. One unexpected thing is how much I like Omos. Also if you watch Up Up Down Down, his cameos are always great. As is Mansoor. That guy is hilarious, he needs some promo time.

From what I heard with KO, the reason he's out is because of how phenomenal Sami has been doing. Which, Sami's storyline is currently one of the best things in existence. Watching everyone's face while he's talking is incredible.

For AEW, I think some of the pacing has been off as of late. And I'm really not Dean's biggest fan. I think someone else deserves that opportunity even though he's been very consistent. I'm ready for the MJF era.
 
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