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2023 Browns Off-Season Thread II: Free Agent Marathon: Settling in for the Long Haul: Slow and Steady: Patience is a Virtue: Loose Lips Sink Ships!

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I still think people are overthinking it.

You already spent the 240M dollars don’t balk at the 12M now.

Watson wants him, make your best effort to get him. Don’t skimp on maintenance costs of a quarter billion dollar investment

And yes I know the opportunity costs, but this is also a pretty unique situation
 
Vee-Rex said:
I was going to say something else but... eh, alright. Wasn't my intention but I can see how it may seem that way.
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It's all good.

I believe one thing, you believe another thing that's different than me and that's perfectly fine. The whole purpose of a message board in the first place, ya know?

And candidly, you can absolutely think I'm the biggest idiot around here if you're so inclined. That doesn't bother me at all. You're entitled to that opinion if you want.

The only thing I didn't appreciate was you deciding to do make a very blatantly and intentionally disingenuous Darnold > Watson talking point for no other reason than you didn't like the context (or lack thereof in your mind) of the stats I cited to compare Hopkins to Peoples-Jones. I didn't think that was particularly cool of you to do, but ultimately it's all good.
 
The Wizard of Moz said:
I still think people are overthinking it.

You already spent the 240M dollars don’t balk at the 12M now.

Watson wants him, make your best effort to get him. Don’t skimp on maintenance costs of a quarter billion dollar investment

And yes I know the opportunity costs, but this is also a pretty unique situation
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I don't think the scenario you're proposing, where Watson says he needs Nuk in order to be a good QB, is reality.
 
CBBI said:
It's all good.

I believe one thing, you believe another thing that's different than me and that's perfectly fine. The whole purpose of a message board in the first place, ya know?

And candidly, you can absolutely think I'm the biggest idiot around here if you're so inclined. That doesn't bother me at all. You're entitled to that opinion if you want.

The only thing I didn't appreciate was you deciding to do make a very blatantly and intentionally disingenuous Darnold > Watson talking point for no other reason than you didn't like the context (or lack thereof in your mind) of the stats I cited to compare Hopkins to Peoples-Jones. I didn't think that was particularly cool of you to do, but ultimately it's all good.
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This is the very same thread where just yesterday receiving touchdowns were deemed meaningless bc Evan Moore had more than Julio Jones one time once

I think that one was quite a lot more egregious
 
I think this is an interesting article and provides a link to a video about Palms Coverage and part of why we had communication issues on our defense last year:


Glad to see Schwartz simplifying the coverages. More of a "our guys are going to outplay your guys because our guys got talent". Less attempts at deception, more based on execution.
 
The Wizard of Moz said:
I still think people are overthinking it.

You already spent the 240M dollars don’t balk at the 12M now.

Watson wants him, make your best effort to get him. Don’t skimp on maintenance costs of a quarter billion dollar investment

And yes I know the opportunity costs, but this is also a pretty unique situation
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I feel like it's just a little more layered than you're suggesting.

If this was 2020 Hopkins then yes of course I would be calling to give that guy whatever he's asking for. Restructure Garrett, do whatever it takes to get him in the building.

I'm just not sure how can anyone feel confident that the Pro Bowl version of Hopkins even still exists. If what he's showed the last two years, particularly last year, is what he's going to be in 2023 and beyond, I'd be totally comfortable just giving those reps to DPJ and especially to Moore.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I really like the WR room as presently constructed.
 
CBBI said:
I feel like it's just a little more layered than you're suggesting.

If this was 2020 Hopkins then yes of course I would be calling to give that guy whatever he's asking for. Restructure Garrett, do whatever it takes to get him in the building.

I'm just not sure how can anyone feel confident that the Pro Bowl version of Hopkins even still exists. If what he's showed the last two years, particularly last year, is what he's going to be in 2023 and beyond, I'd be totally comfortable just giving those reps to DPJ and especially to Moore.
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Maybe it is, but should it be?

I think you would likely agree with me that Watson regaining form is by far the best indicator of success for this season?

This is his best WR connection he has ever had. I feel like people are underplaying that. FWIW I also like DPJ and I'm not gonna be happy to see him go, but when I heard Watson wanted Nuk I think the Browns should go for it.
 
The Wizard of Moz said:
Maybe it is, but should it be?

I think you would likely agree with me that Watson regaining form is by far the best indicator of success for this season?

This is his best WR connection he has ever had. I feel like people are underplaying that. FWIW I also like DPJ and I'm not gonna be happy to see him go, but when I heard Watson wanted Nuk I think the Browns should go for it.
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I get what you're saying, but Watson throwing to physical apex 25, 26, 27 year old no significant injuries Hopkins is likely gonna be different than throwing to 31 year old multiple leg injuries Hopkins, right?

I respect the fact that Watson believes it will work, but belief doesn't mean it will work either. Sometimes you have to save players, even great players, from themselves when it comes to making personnel decisions that will appease them.
 
CBBI said:
I respect the fact that Watson believes it will work, but belief doesn't mean it it will work either. Sometimes you have to save players, even great players, from themselves when it comes to making personnel decisions that will appease them.
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Its a fair point and one I'd agree with in many instances. Personally for me, it being his most comfortable connection ever paired with DPJ being in a contract year has me willing to appease Watson on this one. Maybe I've been conditioned by LeBron the GM as a Cavs fan
 
The Wizard of Moz said:
This is the very same thread where just yesterday receiving touchdowns were deemed meaningless bc Evan Moore had more than Julio Jones one time once

I think that one was quite a lot more egregious
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Receiving TD's aren't a poor judge of a receiver's overall ability because Evan Moore scored them and Julio did not. That is called an example, not reasoning. The reasoning was also posted.

Receiving TD's are first random, second a product of scheme, and somewhere way down the line, a measure of your ability to do things like get open. However, your ability to do those things shows up in every snap--so that's why the metrics with larger samples are more valuable.
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What are we going to do next, judge pitchers by wins and running backs by yards per carry?
 
The Wizard of Moz said:
the giant issue here is I never proposed that
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So, is there any more to your logic than simply the written "Watson wants him"?

Because if that's all your hypothetical has backing it, then no--you absolutely do not make moves simply because Watson wants them. There needs to be a reason for the move to improve your team, and there's no reason to make the assumption that meeting his wants would result in better play.

I'm sure there are plenty of massueses he wants that he can't have, for his own good.

I completely get the "Hey, don't cheap out on maximizing the return on your investment." It's as stupid as someone refusing to pay for an oil change on a Ferrari--but the link to Nuk making Watson a better QB still needs to be made.
 
The Wizard of Moz said:
Its a fair point and one I'd agree with in many instances. Personally for me, it being his most comfortable connection ever paired with DPJ being in a contract year has me willing to appease Watson on this one. Maybe I've been conditioned by LeBron the GM as a Cavs fan
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So given the injury history and your perception of its severity -/ whatever that may be — how far would you take the pursuit of him from a yearly and monetary stand point? Sorry if I missed it, but I don’t recall you mentioning that piece in discussion thus far
 
I don't know if it's been mentioned up thread, but both DPJ and Nuk are Klutch clients. The number of Klutch clients on the Browns have increased the past two years.

We all know too well how Klutch works, they will look out for their guys and try to sway a franchise to look out for all their guys. I just think this is an important detail as many fans seem to think DPJ and Nuk will end up an either/or situation.
 
Randolphkeys said:
I don't know if it's been mentioned up thread, but both DPJ and Nuk are Klutch clients. The number of Klutch clients on the Browns have increased the past two years.

We all know too well how Klutch works, they will look out for their guys and try to sway a franchise to look out for all their guys. I just think this is an important detail as many fans seem to think DPJ and Nuk will end up an either/or situation.
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I mentioned it upthread and laid out an ideal situation (in my mind, at least). I've also known Kelton, who is a really good dude, since before he was an agent, and think he'll do right by Nuk and DPJ.
 
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