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2016-2017 Indians Off-Season Thread

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Pablo looks great based on the recent photos.

The concern then becomes health.
 
@sportscoach you must mean 2011 for Acta. That was the only year he won more than 69 games (80-82). Even then, I don't know who you wanted them to add, that was a bad team. Even so, they did go out and add Ubaldo at a great cost. He sucked that season, and the next, but that's not really the point.
 
D-Wreck said:
@sportscoach you must mean 2011 for Acta. That was the only year he won more than 69 games (80-82). Even then, I don't know who you wanted them to add, that was a bad team. Even so, they did go out and add Ubaldo at a great cost. He sucked that season, and the next, but that's not really the point.
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That was the season I wanted Doug Fister and Hunter Pence rather than Ubaldo, aka we needed a bat that season and we went and got a pitcher! The funny part is none of the guys in that deal until recently ended up any good! It just felt like we never did what we needed to, but also once Francona became manager we did switch the FO around and the younger Dolan took charge as well and we signed players in the 2013 season lol
 
sportscoach said:
That was the season I wanted Doug Fister and Hunter Pence rather than Ubaldo, aka we needed a bat that season and we went and got a pitcher! The funny part is none of the guys in that deal until recently ended up any good! It just felt like we never did what we needed to, but also once Francona became manager we did switch the FO around and the younger Dolan took charge as well and we signed players in the 2013 season lol
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I'll still stand by my thinking that the 2011 team stunk, and it would have been a waste of assets to make a deal. I didn't even like the Ubaldo deal at the time.

Until recently, I don't think we had a team worth adding to.
 
sportscoach said:
It depends on what shape Panda is in when he comes to spring training. If he comes in with some weight down and everything like that he could be back to being a solid hitter like he was in the past. I always felt he was overrrated when he was with San Fran, but if you can get Hanley to be the former Hanley and Panda to be San Fran Panda, the lineup maybe solid. On both teams right now are about equal, with Vegas siding with Boston.

Also Boston will make another move and its likely for a veteran Catcher either through free agency or via trade. I am thinking their offense may not fall off far from last year but their pitching will be overall better than last year to make up for it. Now that is how I feel about them.

I dont like not having a good RH bat only bat in the middle of the lineup. I dont think we have to have the 30+ HR guy if we had the .290 hitter there, I just feel like we need something there. I guess that is the way i like to personally construct a lineup. We all have our opinions about that. I know people who say you can never have too many bats, and personally i feel we need to have someone else in that lineup.

To me it wasn't more of the extensions that I had an issue with it was more of the in-season making moves. Like the second year we had Acta, we were close to the wild card/playoff at the trade deadline and we don't trade for any player. It felt like when Acta was our coach we didn't go out and get players for him when we should have. Now what is nice right now Francona is friends with the current FO so they feel like they are on the same page so everything has been a lot better lately. So lately has been good, but that 2012 season it felt like they didn't do enough for Acta.

ps. If you haven't figure I havent had people to talk about the team with so don't mind me. I am just talking and stating my opinions to go forward with lol
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A refreshing addition to the Indians forum. Thanks @sportscoach
 
BimboColesHair said:
Slow news day with everyone flying home today.

This was really the only thing of interest w/regards to the Indians

View: https://twitter.com/bnicholsonsmith/status/806834948338548736
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I actually kind of hope the Indians get Encarnacion. I am not sure about his personality and whatnot in the club house, but he would be the perfect bat for this lineup. I wanna see him behind Lindor and in front of Brantley. Pick who you want to deal with opposing pitchers. my lineup would be Santana, Kipnis, Lindor, Encarnacion, Brantley, Ramirez, Chisenhall/Guyer, Gomes/Perez, Naquin/Almonte. I think that would be the best lineup since now Santana isn't trying to pressure himself to be an RBI guy, he needs to take pitches and get on base (his career average in leadoff is .260 avg, .385 obp. with more walks than strikeouts in 86 games) Lindor last season faced the pressure well in the 3 spot, and having encarnacion behind would be scary to a pitcher. If you don't wanna pitch to encarnacion and we have brantley of old, then go ahead and try to stop him or Ramirez from hitting guys in lol
 
I'm actually in opposition to signing Encarnacion. He'd look great in the lineup but the price-tag is too much IMO.

He was terrible against lefties last year, and his BA dipped a massive amount in general. Sure, the power numbers are nice, I guess I'm just not convinced we couldn't find a platoon situation that offers similar production, albeit in different ways, at a much cheaper price.

There are still some interesting names that could be great value on short deals....Lind, Alvarez, Ryan Howard (maybe due for bounce back even after hitting 25 HR's in limited at bats), Morneau, Butler, Carter, Gutierrez, Reynolds, etc....

I'd hate to invest long-term in a guy who is already showing serious regression and there are rumors of negative clubhouse impact.

Ultimately, I believe they end up re-signing Napoli. I think they meet in the middle.....Nap loved his time here and Tito likes him in lockerroom.

I'd prefer a platoon situation with guys in 1-2 year deals, that work interchangeably with Carlos at 1B.
 
billmac91 said:
I'm actually in opposition to signing Encarnacion. He'd look great in the lineup but the price-tag is too much IMO.

He was terrible against lefties last year, and his BA dipped a massive amount in general. Sure, the power numbers are nice, I guess I'm just not convinced we couldn't find a platoon situation that offers similar production, albeit in different ways, at a much cheaper price.

There are still some interesting names that could be great value on short deals....Lind, Alvarez, Ryan Howard (maybe due for bounce back even after hitting 25 HR's in limited at bats), Morneau, Butler, Carter, Gutierrez, Reynolds, etc....

I'd hate to invest long-term in a guy who is already showing serious regression and there are rumors of negative clubhouse impact.

Ultimately, I believe they end up re-signing Napoli. I think they meet in the middle.....Nap loved his time here and Tito likes him in lockerroom.

I'd prefer a platoon situation with guys in 1-2 year deals, that work interchangeably with Carlos at 1B.
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Ryan Howard hasn't been good since 2011, that'd be one hell of a bounce back.

Plus, I think you're overselling Encarnacion's regression. It's hardly been serious, and any decline has been minimal. You say his BA% dipped a massive amount, but he only dropped from .277 to .263, and he's a career .266 hitter. He was basically right in line with what he's been doing.

His K% is really the only concerning change, and just under 20% still isn't that bad, Napoli was at 30% for comparison.

He's not perfect, he's aging, which is why most of us wouldn't want to give him more than 3 years, but he'll likely be a stud the next 2 years. That's worth every penny.

EDIT: I can't believe you mentioned Mark Reynolds. Shame. Shame. Shame.
 
billmac91 said:
I'm actually in opposition to signing Encarnacion. He'd look great in the lineup but the price-tag is too much IMO.

He was terrible against lefties last year, and his BA dipped a massive amount in general. Sure, the power numbers are nice, I guess I'm just not convinced we couldn't find a platoon situation that offers similar production, albeit in different ways, at a much cheaper price.
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EE's OBP against LHP was .385. Hardly terrible.

I think he's due for some regression as well, but I wouldn't call a 14 point drop in batting average massive either. Especially considering it's only a 5 point drop from 2014. Batting average is not really something I worry about too much anyway.

What makes an EE signing worth it to me, even with typical with age regression, I'm pretty confident that Encarnation will give the team better production than they got this year from Napoli (.800 OPS) in 2017 for sure and probably also 2018. Will it be 20M dollars per season worth of production both years? Probably not, but it isn't my money and it shouldn't cripple things for the franchise moving forward either.

Maybe by 2019 EE's contract would be a boat anchor, but if we can get an .850 OPS out of the guy for the next two years it's still worth doing.
 
CBBI said:
EE's OBP against LHP was .385. Hardly terrible.

I think he's due for some regression as well, but I wouldn't call a 14 point drop in batting average massive either. Especially considering it's only a 5 point drop from 2014. Batting average is not really something I worry about too much anyway.

What makes an EE signing worth it to me, even with typical with age regression, I'm pretty confident that Encarnation will give the team better production than they got this year from Napoli (.800 OPS) in 2017 for sure and probably also 2018. Will it be 20M dollars per season worth of production both years? Probably not, but it isn't my money and it shouldn't cripple things for the franchise moving forward either.

Maybe by 2019 EE's contract would be a boat anchor, but if we can get an .850 OPS out of the guy for the next two years it's still worth doing.
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Had an OPS over .900 against lefties as well

This is what it's all about. He's more than likely going to still be very good the next two years, and be worth every penny of the contract.
 
2/3 yrs is long term?
Platoon? Haven't we been doing that pretty much everywhere in a "power" position since Man Ram?

billmac91 said:
I'm actually in opposition to signing Encarnacion. He'd look great in the lineup but the price-tag is too much IMO.

He was terrible against lefties last year, and his BA dipped a massive amount in general. Sure, the power numbers are nice, I guess I'm just not convinced we couldn't find a platoon situation that offers similar production, albeit in different ways, at a much cheaper price.

There are still some interesting names that could be great value on short deals....Lind, Alvarez, Ryan Howard (maybe due for bounce back even after hitting 25 HR's in limited at bats), Morneau, Butler, Carter, Gutierrez, Reynolds, etc....

I'd hate to invest long-term in a guy who is already showing serious regression and there are rumors of negative clubhouse impact.

Ultimately, I believe they end up re-signing Napoli. I think they meet in the middle.....Nap loved his time here and Tito likes him in lockerroom.

I'd prefer a platoon situation with guys in 1-2 year deals, that work interchangeably with Carlos at 1B.
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