2018 NFL SEASON Thread

[godfather]

How many Super Bowls, hell, how many playoff games have Cassel, Jimmy G, Brisset, and Hoyer won for New England? While you are at it, how many offensive play calls has Belichick called during his career in New England?

New England does not have a system offense. Brady has succeeded in a traditional spread, air raid, pro-style, run-and-shoot, and hybrid schemes. I just do not understand the "system QB" point because he has succeeded in New England unlike any other QB and because the Patriots do not have a set offensive system.

A system only works if you have great players surrounding it. The Patriots have never had great offensive skill players.

Maybe their line, but its been inconsistent.

I think some people are under this delusion that coaches can win by themselves, and players don't matter.

Probably the weirdest stance ever.

And Bill and Josh are good. But they wouldn't have jack shit if they didn't have Brady.

They'd both admit it too. Even Bill has said numerous times, its a players league.

 

[GreasySpread36]

A system only works if you have great players surrounding it. The Patriots have never had great offensive skill players.

Maybe their line, but its been inconsistent.

I think some people are under this delusion that coaches can win by themselves, and players don't matter.

Probably the weirdest stance ever.

And Bill and Josh are good. But they wouldn't have jack shit if they didn't have Brady.

They'd both admit it too. Even Bill has said numerous times, its a players league.

Longtime Browns fans should know this better than anyone, because we watched Belichick as a HC when he had the likes of washed-up Bernie, Vinny Testaverde and Mike Tomczak as his quarterbacks. No disrespect to Belichick, but he looks a hell of a lot better when he has Tom Brady than when he had those guys, and I think he'd be the first one to admit it.

 

[godfather]

Longtime Browns fans should know this better than anyone, because we watched Belichick as a HC when he had the likes of washed-up Bernie, Vinny Testaverde and Mike Tomczak as his quarterbacks. No disrespect to Belichick, but he looks a hell of a lot better when he has Tom Brady than when he had those guys, and I think he'd be the first one to admit it.

Pretty spot on. He was about to be run out of the league. And make no mistake, I think Bill is great as a coach. All coaches are only as good as their players. In all sports.

If Brady is just this system QB. Then where the FUCK WAS this great system when he was in Cleveland.

Because we weren't very good. And Vinny wasn't a crappy QB either.

 

[Walter White]

Saw a stat that Brady hasn't been sacked yet in the playoffs and barely been touched. And against all the great pass rushers he has faced, that is insane. Mahomes got beat up yesterday, I know he was sacked at least 4 times before I lost count.

You know what, the more I think of it, the more I'm kind of glad we lost. If we won, we could have become very lethargic for next year. Now Chiefs are faced to look at themselves in the mirror and have the balls to make necessary changes. We don't need to force ourselves to overpay guys or keep around certain people that need to be fired. We need the desperation to make changes, improve our defense, and carry a chip on our shoulder for next year.

I think it's setting up Mahomes for a record breaking year next season if he plays with that edge. And same with everyone else. I believe this will make Mahomes much better than if we would have won and it was too easy. Now he has to study film more, become even more cerebral, and work on his weaknesses that only a team like the Pats can expose when he could have just kept coasting on his pure talent. Especially if he gets MVP so young. Now he knows what it really takes.

 

[godfather]

I think Mahomes tends to hold the ball too long, and looks for the home run a lot.

He's got to learn to take the under neath stuff more. Brady isn't getting sacked because he takes the under neath stuff, and gets rid of it fast. It's not always sexy, but its efficient football.

And of course their line has been great.

 

[Walter White]

I think Mahomes tends to hold the ball too long, and looks for the home run a lot.

He's got to learn to take the under neath stuff more. Brady isn't getting sacked because he takes the under neath stuff, and gets rid of it fast. It's not always sexy, but its efficient football.

And of course their line has been great.

I agree. But playoffs are also a whole different animal. He was seeing defense and strategy he hasn't really seen. Our offensive line was way worse than usual and people also weren't getting open in the first half somehow. Patriots covered the field very well.

The more I think about it, it's actually pretty crazy how we could have won against an all time great QB and coach with the major deficiencies we have on our roster. Like we have some of the worst defense in the league (at least half due to our coordinator) and still should have won. Mahomes is special. Look at how good he is yet how much room he has to still improve. Playoff experience is invaluable.

 

[Marcus]

Our QB won the Heisman Trophy and was the first pick in the draft and he plays that card like it's going out of style. I'm just saying.

Remind me again, which of these two teams you’re comparing have been the joke of the league for 20 years now? Which one has appeared in more Super Bowls in the last three years than the Browns have appeared in in their franchise’s history with an all-time (maybe THE all-time) QB playing under center?

Baker and the Browns have a well-deserved chip on their shoulder. I wouldn’t even be able to tell you the last time the Patriots missed the playoffs without looking it up first.

 

[GreasySpread36]

Remind me again, which of these two teams you’re comparing have been the joke of the league for 20 years now? Which one has appeared in more Super Bowls in the last three years than the Browns have appeared in in their franchise’s history with an all-time (maybe THE all-time) QB playing under center?

Baker and the Browns have a well-deserved chip on their shoulder. I wouldn’t even be able to tell you the last time the Patriots missed the playoffs without looking it up first.

Baker would have that chip on his shoulder no matter what team he plays for. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. If feeling underestimated and disrespected gets him motivated, more power to him. Regardless, the Patriots have to motivate themselves somehow. I'm sure it's difficult to avoid being satisfied and complacent when you've won as much as they have. Is it bullshit that they're playing that card? Yeah, to a certain extent. But if that's what keeps them hungry, so be it.

 

[Mr. Orange]

None of them has ever, ever, looked even remotely as good as Brady. Just stop.

Jimmy G looks like he is actually good. Didn't realize he stunk

You keep missing the point.

Jimmy G, Cassel, Jacoby are all average QBs, but were basically undefeated looked like Pro Bowlers and got huge paydays due to being on NE.

Brady - a great QB, looks like the GOAT on NE. I'm not saying he isn't top 10, or even maybe top 5, but I still don't see him as the GOAT in a tier by himself. Montana/Marino/Elway/Manning/Brady. Somewhere in there you are getting to tier 1, but it becomes hard to compare eras as the league is much more passer friendly these days. Damn would it have been nice to see Marino and Elway today.

 

[Stark]

I thought Mahomes played a hell of a ballgame last night. You could tell it was his first time on the conference-championship stage, and he went up against a fantastic game-planner in Belichick.

Threw for 295 YDS, 3 TD, 0 INT, 117 rating against a dynasty Patriots team in pretty cold weather.

Definitely outplayed Brady overall for what it was worth. Brady went for 348 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT, and a 77.1 rating against a far worse defense than Mahomes had to face. He also threw the ball 46 times compared to Mahomes' 31, which helped push him ahead in the yardage. Would have loved to see Pat get the ball back one last time to see if he could go toe-to-toe with Brady in conf. championship OT, but the NFL has lame overtime rules so we didn't get that.

Mahomes is on the way to superstardom. He could win the next two or three MVPs easily and average 40+ TD and 5,000+ YDS per year in that system that the Chiefs run. They just need to get a defense to help back him up.

 

[Stark]

You keep missing the point.

Jimmy G, Cassel, Jacoby are all average QBs, but were basically undefeated looked like Pro Bowlers and got huge paydays due to being on NE.

Brady - a great QB, looks like the GOAT on NE. I'm not saying he isn't top 10, or even maybe top 5, but I still don't see him as the GOAT in a tier by himself. Montana/Marino/Elway/Manning/Brady. Somewhere in there you are getting to tier 1, but it becomes hard to compare eras as the league is much more passer friendly these days. Damn would it have been nice to see Marino and Elway today.

This was kind of the point I was trying to make last night where I was saying that the Patriots are a hell of a system. Brady is a phenomenal QB of course and without him turning into the player he ended up being, that dynasty very likely isn't as memorable as it has become. Him and Belichick have one of the most cohesive QB-coach relationships ever.

However, look at a few things:

2008 - Brady misses 15 games; Matt Cassell steps in and goes 10-5. The Patriots were good and you could have substituted Tom Brady for whoever you wanted pretty much and they would have had success because that system is Spurs-esque.
2016 - Brady suspended 4 games for cheating his dick off in the Super Bowl; Brissett and Jimmy G both played two games each and went a combined 3-1. They probably would have went 4-0 if Jimmy played all four games, but that's neither here nor there.

Again - Brady is fantastic. Phenomenal. A great QB. But he's also not some unprecedented Jesus Christ at the position like a few people are making him out to be; putting him on a God tier by himself completely with him blowing Montana, Peyton, and whoever else completely out of the water. There's a few too many things you can bring up against him to stop that kind of thing from happening.

He's still tier one with whoever you want to have with him (without getting too much into it, I'd probably have him there with Montana and Manning), but he's not there by himself, just like I don't have LeBron on a tier by himself separate from Jordan just yet.

 

[Walter White]

They just need to get a defense to help back him up.

I know. I crave it bad. Just imagine if we had a decent defense. Chiefs really need to get creative and make some moves to get a good defense. Hitting on draft picks is most important though.

But I hope we don't over pay Ford or do anything crazy. We have too many overpaid players that we frankly need to recoup money from. Chiefs need a defensive overhaul in the worst way. The crazy thing is that we have a lot of good individual defenders. But they better get a new defensive coordinator or Chiefs fans are going to lose it. They have been calling for Sutton to be fired all year.

 

[col63onel]

Saw a stat that Brady hasn't been sacked yet in the playoffs and barely been touched. And against all the great pass rushers he has faced, that is insane. Mahomes got beat up yesterday, I know he was sacked at least 4 times before I lost count.

You know what, the more I think of it, the more I'm kind of glad we lost. If we won, we could have become very lethargic for next year. Now Chiefs are faced to look at themselves in the mirror and have the balls to make necessary changes. We don't need to force ourselves to overpay guys or keep around certain people that need to be fired. We need the desperation to make changes, improve our defense, and carry a chip on our shoulder for next year.

I think it's setting up Mahomes for a record breaking year next season if he plays with that edge. And same with everyone else. I believe this will make Mahomes much better than if we would have won and it was too easy. Now he has to study film more, become even more cerebral, and work on his weaknesses that only a team like the Pats can expose when he could have just kept coasting on his pure talent. Especially if he gets MVP so young. Now he knows what it really takes.

There was the time he was tapped on the shoulder roughed

 

[I'mWithDan]

You keep missing the point.

Jimmy G, Cassel, Jacoby are all average QBs, but were basically undefeated looked like Pro Bowlers and got huge paydays due to being on NE.

Brady - a great QB, looks like the GOAT on NE.

Let's introduce you to the NE Pro Bowl QB's, presented by Mr. Orange

Jimmy G - 65%, 63 Passing Yards /G, 5 TD in 11 appearances
Matt Cassell - 63% comp, 131 Passing Yards /G, 23 Td's in 30 appearances
Jacoby Brissett - 61% comp, 133 Passing Yards /G, 0 Td's in 3 appearances

I think he's really on to something here.

EDIT: I edited these stats so they were accurate. I missed small season samples for both Jimmy G and Cassel.

 

[Jack Brickman]

A system only works if you have great players surrounding it.

I totally disagree with that. A great system finds ways to get the most out of the players within it. The main reason the Pats are so good is that they overhaul their system each year to take into account the players they have on their roster.

Just look at the Browns. We had a bunch of nobodies at WR this year. The first eight games, they looked the part because we had a shitty system that didn't even remotely pretend to give a fuck about the players involved. The last eight games, magically all of our receivers looked like actual NFL players and were making great plays constantly. We had the same roster. Same QB. Same receivers. Same RBs. Same TEs. What changed? We started running plays that took the talent into account and played to its strengths and tried to sidestep the weaknesses. As a result, the Browns were one of the best offenses in the league despite having, as mentioned, mostly mediocre or unknown receivers. Hell, even Breshad Perriman, written off as a total bust, revitalized his career in those last eight games.

So no, a system doesn't only work if you have great players surrounding it. The best coaches tailor their system to the talent at hand and design it to get the most out of them. Belichick has been doing this for decades and other teams are only just now catching on.