2019 Browns Rant Thread

[col63onel]

What made Lerner a bad owner?

I'd say he was a good owner whose football personnel failed him. He put established football people in positions to lead the franchise, and they just shat the bed.

The people he hired were bad at their jobs. That is the most important thing he could do, and he was consistently awful at it. Thus, bad owner.

Wanting him out for an owner that could hire good people was a very reasonable opinion. Twisting that into “well you wanted something different and you got it” is a very weird take.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

The people he hired were bad at their jobs. That is the most important thing he could do, and he was consistently awful at it. Thus, bad owner.

Wanting him out for an owner that could hire good people was a very reasonable opinion. Twisting that into “well you wanted something different and you got it” is a very weird take.

Is it fair to judge the result, or the intention? I look for people to make the best decision based on the inputs available to them. Retroactively saying a decision was bad due to results you could not have foreseen is not an effective way to judge leadership.

Now, if you want to say that Lerner should have known that Holmgren would turn out to be the lazy, poor leader he revealed himself to be, that's fair. I'm not sure it's accurate, but neither of us knows for sure.

If you had someone with Holmgren's pedigree and reputation around the NFL, would fans not be clamoring for him today? Or, to frame it differently, the majority of fans seem to want a coach with experience. This means they want someone who has failed at their previous organization to the point they've been relieved of duties. Why is that? I would prefer searching for someone who could be great.

After the failure of the previous regime, I would want the owner who does things correctly (spend money, hands off football decision) to hire new people.

I'm not sure how "you wanted something different and you got it" is a weird take. You wanted something different. You got it. Is either statement inaccurate?

 

[col63onel]

Is it fair to judge the result, or the intention? I look for people to make the best decision based on the inputs available to them. Retroactively saying a decision was bad due to results you could not have foreseen is not an effective way to judge leadership.

Now, if you want to say that Lerner should have known that Holmgren would turn out to be the lazy, poor leader he revealed himself to be, that's fair. I'm not sure it's accurate, but neither of us knows for sure.

If you had someone with Holmgren's pedigree and reputation around the NFL, would fans not be clamoring for him today? Or, to frame it differently, the majority of fans seem to want a coach with experience. This means they want someone who has failed at their previous organization to the point they've been relieved of duties. Why is that? I would prefer searching for someone who could be great.

After the failure of the previous regime, I would want the owner who does things correctly (spend money, hands off football decision) to hire new people.

I'm not sure how "you wanted something different and you got it" is a weird take. You wanted something different. You got it. Is either statement inaccurate?

Your premise is that we asked for Haslam because we didn’t like Lerner.

Lerner was an objectively unsuccessful owner. We wanted someone who could hire good people and create an organizational structure. Some criticized his hands off approach, but that’s just a byproduct of being a bad owner. If your results are consistently bad, of course people will question your methods.

People wanted a successful owner. Some people hate the dolans and some people hate Gilbert, and they are very different in terms of hands on.

Your argument is just really weird. And you said we deserved a bad owner before backtracking. Sounds more like you are trolling that serious.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Your premise is that we asked for Haslam because we didn’t like Lerner.

Lerner was an objectively unsuccessful owner. We wanted someone who could hire good people and create an organizational structure. Some criticized his hands off approach, but that’s just a byproduct of being a bad owner. If your results are consistently bad, of course people will question your methods.

People wanted a successful owner. Some people hate the dolans and some people hate Gilbert, and they are very different in terms of hands on.

Your argument is just really weird. And you said we deserved a bad owner before backtracking. Sounds more like you are trolling that serious.

The premise is that you asked for change. You got change. You don't get to pick the specific person who buys your franchise.

I don't believe that declaring Lerner an "objectively unsuccessful owner" is as cut and dry as you make it. If the job of the owner is to put experienced people in place to run the franchise, stay out of football decisions, pay for everything, and then hold those people responsible at the end of the day, I think Lerner was one of the better owners in the NFL. Sure, it sucks that his front offices were unsuccessful, but how much of that can be attributed to the owner? I blame the front office members more than the owner.

Please define what you mean by a "successful owner." And, if possible, define it in terms of actions the owner has control over.

I'll put it this way--the vocal majority of fans seem to shout out of frustration rather than trying to say anything constructive or intelligent. Whether it's calling for Lerner's head, demanding a coach who acts out on the sidelines more so they can see emotion, or any of the other foolish things, the fans of this franchise have not helped things.

 

[col63onel]

The premise is that you asked for change. You got change. You don't get to pick the specific person who buys your franchise.

I don't believe that declaring Lerner an "objectively unsuccessful owner" is as cut and dry as you make it. If the job of the owner is to put experienced people in place to run the franchise, stay out of football decisions, pay for everything, and then hold those people responsible at the end of the day, I think Lerner was one of the better owners in the NFL. Sure, it sucks that his front offices were unsuccessful, but how much of that can be attributed to the owner? I blame the front office members more than the owner.

Please define what you mean by a "successful owner." And, if possible, define it in terms of actions the owner has control over.

I'll put it this way--the vocal majority of fans seem to shout out of frustration rather than trying to say anything constructive or intelligent. Whether it's calling for Lerner's head, demanding a coach who acts out on the sidelines more so they can see emotion, or any of the other foolish things, the fans of this franchise have not helped things.

Lerner had one winning season in a decade, unless you count the year he took over. But he gets a pass because the bad guys he hired had experience? Then held them responsible? That makes him successful

Joe Banner, Mike Lombardi and John Dorsey all had experience. Haslam fired them, so I guess he gets the same pass?

I am surprised you can deem what fan base thinks by the “vocal majority” just by saying so, but I have to prove that Lerner was unsuccessful despite having and objectively bad record. Logical consistency is lacking.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Handing the coaching search and the reigns over to John Dorsey after the 2018 season will haunt this team for a long, long time.

Especially his coaching hire. Freddie Kitchens over Kevin Stefanski was the biggest coaching blunder since...I'm not sure, actually.

 

[Urban]

Handing the coaching search and the reigns over to John Dorsey after the 2018 season will haunt this team for a long, long time.

Especially his coaching hire. Freddie Kitchens over Kevin Stefanski was the biggest coaching blunder since...I'm not sure, actually.

Kitchens was obviously an unmitigated disaster and any other candidate we could've hired would've been better. But I think we need to slow the roll on Stefanski being the messiah until he actually has some head coaching success

 

[Soda]

For our sins.

 

[Lee]

So where do we go to bitch about OBJ handing out cash to college athletes?

 

[Sharpner]

So where do we go to bitch about OBJ handing out cash to college athletes?

http://www.ncaa.org/best-practices-conducting-investigation-possible-violations