2019 Draft, Pick #30 - Kevin Porter Jr., USC

[Derek]

I simply don't agree with what people are saying here.

Of all the players on the Cavaliers roster outside of Sexton, it was pretty clear to me that KPJ was most likely to ascend into the superstar our team still very clearly lacks. It's a MASSIVE setback to lose a talent like that. I don't give a fuck where he was drafted. I personally saw him as a top 5 pick leading up to the draft, so where he was drafted should never factor into whether or not it sets us back. Getting him late in the draft only accelerated our timeline, now it certainly has been set back.

Some people are watching through wine and gold colored glasses, that much is very clear.

If this is a massive setback to you, then I believe you had far too much belief in KPJ. Even before his issues resurfaced, I never saw him as someone who was more than likely going to be on the team long-term. His risk level was through the roof.

Not everyone who disagrees with you has on wine and gold colored glasses.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

I simply don't agree with what people are saying here.

Of all the players on the Cavaliers roster outside of Sexton, it was pretty clear to me that KPJ was most likely to ascend into the superstar our team still very clearly lacks. It's a MASSIVE setback to lose a talent like that. I don't give a fuck where he was drafted. I personally saw him as a top 5 pick leading up to the draft, so where he was drafted should never factor into whether or not it sets us back. Getting him late in the draft only accelerated our timeline, now it certainly has been set back.

Some people are watching through wine and gold colored glasses, that much is very clear.

Just know that at this point, pretty much no NBA GM/exec sees Porter as even close to likely to having even an average/productive career. Most teams want nothing to do with him. Some team tried to get the Cavs to pay a 2nd to take his salary. He's extremely close to being out of the league completely or in the D league. The Cavs couldn't even get an actual 2nd rounder, they got one less than likely to convey.

There is nothing about his actual production at any level that says he was ever likely to ascend into superstardom. Garland certainly has shown much more than Porter and absolutely has a superstar ceiling.

I think you're looking at it through KPJ colored glasses.

He has a pretty game, a good physical profile, and has shown some big flashes of talent. I agree. But he has not shown one bit of the consistency, work ethic, or attitude required to even be a rotation player in the league much less a superstar.

In fact, he did nothing but hurt the team chemistry and drag people down this year. It's the opposite of a setback.

There's just so much more that goes into being a difference making player in this league than having a pretty stepback and a killer lefty crossover with good size and athleticism. NBA history is littered with guys just as talented as KPJ, if not more talented, ending up out of the league and broke within 5 years. That's exactly where KPJ is headed.

And respectfully, you and most of the board know only the tip of the iceberg as it relates to KPJ. There's dozens of other stories and incidents that I am not at liberty to go into details of...but the fact that he even made it into the season on the roster was amazing considering the way this kid acts.

If you're gonna act like an egomaniacal superstar as a 2nd year player despite catching criminal charges in the off-season, accused of violence against women, etc...I expect to pull up BB reference and see that you at least dominated in college or in your first year in the league. All he's really done even dating back to college is average 9-10 points on mediocre or worse efficiency, maybe has a handful of games where he looks great and flashes some intriguing abilities.


Just 0 evidence of a massive setback.

 

[CavsFaninNJ]

Houston offered 1 second rounder and no one offered more. No one even came in to offer two 2nd rounders. No one offered a late first rounder.

How again is losing a guy with such low value such a huge blow to the Cavs?

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Houston offered 1 second rounder and no one offered more. No one even came in to offer two 2nd rounders. No one offered a late first rounder.

How again is losing a guy with such low value such a huge blow to the Cavs?

The pick won't even convey, most likely.

He has 0 value around the league. Barely a setback.

Part of the reason they went after him at 30 was because it was a low risk situation.

 

[AllforOne]

I simply don't agree with what people are saying here.

Of all the players on the Cavaliers roster outside of Sexton, it was pretty clear to me that KPJ was most likely to ascend into the superstar our team still very clearly lacks. It's a MASSIVE setback to lose a talent like that. I don't give a fuck where he was drafted. I personally saw him as a top 5 pick leading up to the draft, so where he was drafted should never factor into whether or not it sets us back. Getting him late in the draft only accelerated our timeline, now it certainly has been set back.

Some people are watching through wine and gold colored glasses, that much is very clear.

It is clear -- it's you. You're seeing something that simply doesn't exist.

Your post is video game Franchise Mode thinking. A place where all players are automatons who never get arrested, throw tantrums, fight with teammates or coaches, or otherwise cause problems. A place where players can be evaluated solely on whatever level of talent they may have, and everything else is simply irrelevant.

In that world, KPJ is a baller. You can put him on the floor every game, with whatever his ratings are as a shooter/dribbler/passer, and not have to worry about all of that mushy real-world stuff.

Here's your problem: that world doesn't exist. It doesn't matter if KPJ has the most physical talent of anybody on the team, if he doesn't have the mental capability (speaking broadly here in terms of maturity, attitude, work ethic, reliability, etc., and not just intelligence) to point it in the right direction.

In the real world, the current version of KPJ is barely in the league, and is there only because a strip-mined Rockets team that is going nowhere this season figured, "what the hell, let's roll the dice." Knowing all the while that the odds are well against it ever working out.

You'll see it in time.

ETA: Hate it when I start a post, and three other people have made my point by the time I'm finished.

 

[ShawnKempIsMyDad]

Houston offered 1 second rounder and no one offered more. No one even came in to offer two 2nd rounders. No one offered a late first rounder.

How again is losing a guy with such low value such a huge blow to the Cavs?

It's not. I think we actually lucked out. He's going to be out of the league after this year. Trust me.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

The pick won't even convey, most likely.

He has 0 value around the league. Barely a setback.

Part of the reason they went after him at 30 was because it was a low risk situation.

Ultimately the value of the pick is just in saving the cap hit for two years. Not a huge thing, but better than cutting him and taking the salary and cap hit.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I simply don't agree with what people are saying here.

Of all the players on the Cavaliers roster outside of Sexton, it was pretty clear to me that KPJ was most likely to ascend into the superstar our team still very clearly lacks. It's a MASSIVE setback to lose a talent like that. I don't give a fuck where he was drafted. I personally saw him as a top 5 pick leading up to the draft, so where he was drafted should never factor into whether or not it sets us back. Getting him late in the draft only accelerated our timeline, now it certainly has been set back.

Some people are watching through wine and gold colored glasses, that much is very clear.

KPJ may have had that level of physical talent, but he's equvalent to a guy with a serious latent physical medical issue. Lots of promise, but unlikely to reach it because of issues not related to his talent. Those are things you can't just ignore when considering his value. That's why he was still there at 30 despite that talent, and that's why nobody else offered more than Houston.

Who KPJ is in theory is just much better than the reality.

 

[Triplethreat]

Just know that at this point, pretty much no NBA GM/exec sees Porter as even close to likely to having even an average/productive career. Most teams want nothing to do with him. Some team tried to get the Cavs to pay a 2nd to take his salary. He's extremely close to being out of the league completely or in the D league. The Cavs couldn't even get an actual 2nd rounder, they got one less than likely to convey.

There is nothing about his actual production at any level that says he was ever likely to ascend into superstardom. Garland certainly has shown much more than Porter and absolutely has a superstar ceiling.

I think you're looking at it through KPJ colored glasses.

He has a pretty game, a good physical profile, and has shown some big flashes of talent. I agree. But he has not shown one bit of the consistency, work ethic, or attitude required to even be a rotation player in the league much less a superstar.

In fact, he did nothing but hurt the team chemistry and drag people down this year. It's the opposite of a setback.

There's just so much more that goes into being a difference making player in this league than having a pretty stepback and a killer lefty crossover with good size and athleticism. NBA history is littered with guys just as talented as KPJ, if not more talented, ending up out of the league and broke within 5 years. That's exactly where KPJ is headed.

And respectfully, you and most of the board know only the tip of the iceberg as it relates to KPJ. There's dozens of other stories and incidents that I am not at liberty to go into details of...but the fact that he even made it into the season on the roster was amazing considering the way this kid acts.

If you're gonna act like an egomaniacal superstar as a 2nd year player despite catching criminal charges in the off-season, accused of violence against women, etc...I expect to pull up BB reference and see that you at least dominated in college or in your first year in the league. All he's really done even dating back to college is average 9-10 points on mediocre or worse efficiency, maybe has a handful of games where he looks great and flashes some intriguing abilities.


Just 0 evidence of a massive setback.

I'm not saying removing Porter this season was anything short of the right move.

My point is that based on Porter's results last season and the way he was trending, this is definitely a major setback for our team and rebuild and I don't believe there should be any argument otherwise. In fact, the original off court issues surfacing this off-season could be seen as the point for that major setback. Flat out, when you have a player who looks so obviously talented as KPJ and so young, it is always going to set your team back.

He was accelerating our rebuild, now losing his talent and potential hurts us much more than if he had not had any off court issues to speak of.

 

[Nphan]

It is clear -- it's you. You're seeing something that simply doesn't exist.

Your post is video game Franchise Mode thinking. A place where all players are automatons who never get arrested, throw tantrums, fight with teammates or coaches, or otherwise cause problems. A place where players can be evaluated solely on whatever level of talent they may have, and everything else is simply irrelevant.

In that world, KPJ is a baller. You can put him on the floor every game, with whatever his ratings are as a shooter/dribbler/passer, and not have to worry about all of that mushy real-world stuff.

Here's your problem: that world doesn't exist. It doesn't matter if KPJ has the most physical talent of anybody on the team, if he doesn't have the mental capability (speaking broadly here in terms of maturity, attitude, work ethic, reliability, etc., and not just intelligence) to point it in the right direction.

In the real world, the current version of KPJ is barely in the league, and is there only because a strip-mined Rockets team that is going nowhere this season figured, "what the hell, let's roll the dice." Knowing all the while that the odds are well against it ever working out.

You'll see it in time.

ETA: Hate it when I start a post, and three other people have made my point by the time I'm finished.

Great analogy. I wouldn't be surprised if KPJ gets in a fight in Rockets locker room with aggressive vet personalities like Cousins, Wall and Tucker. Either they will keep him scared and in check or hes going to throw hands at one of them.

 

[avs2000]

Lmao what?
Porter has shown some flashes. But he has a long time to go before even being a postive impact player in the league. The Cavs have a great young core, one guy who's already taking the leap to stardom(Sexton), one guy who has looked like he's taking a huge leap in year 2(Garland), and an athletic rookie wing who's going to be a great defender and has already shown good flashes offensively. We have all of our firsts going forward and Koby has the green light to continue to add assets.

Even in college...flashes of talent....but overall poor results.

He has to completely transform his life first before he even can start to properly reach his potential. It wasn't going to happen here. But this team is fun and enjoyable and not wanting to watch because KPJ isn't here anymore just tells me you weren't much of a fan to begin with.

I was being sarcastic. Porter is talented but not worth having him around with all of his issues. Best of luck to him. He is going to need it

 

[Derek]

I'm not saying removing Porter this season was anything short of the right move.

My point is that based on Porter's results last season and the way he was trending, this is definitely a major setback for our team and rebuild and I don't believe there should be any argument otherwise. In fact, the original off court issues surfacing this off-season could be seen as the point for that major setback. Flat out, when you have a player who looks so obviously talented as KPJ and so young, it is always going to set your team back.

He was accelerating our rebuild, now losing his talent and potential hurts us much more than if he had not had any off court issues to speak of.

But here's where a lot of us are coming from.

KPJ was a lotto ticket.

Yes, him being a success would have helped a lot, but when you scratch off a loser, it's not a major setback to your bank account.

 

[CavsFaninNJ]

I'm not saying removing Porter this season was anything short of the right move.

My point is that based on Porter's results last season and the way he was trending, this is definitely a major setback for our team and rebuild and I don't believe there should be any argument otherwise. In fact, the original off court issues surfacing this off-season could be seen as the point for that major setback. Flat out, when you have a player who looks so obviously talented as KPJ and so young, it is always going to set your team back.

He was accelerating our rebuild, now losing his talent and potential hurts us much more than if he had not had any off court issues to speak of.

If he had no off the court issues to speak of, we may have taken him fifth instead of Garland. Or he'd have gone to someone late in the lottery.

Let's not play the if game. If he didn't have those issues he's likely not a Cav.

 

[2 For The Brew]

I'm not saying removing Porter this season was anything short of the right move.

My point is that based on Porter's results last season and the way he was trending, this is definitely a major setback for our team and rebuild and I don't believe there should be any argument otherwise. In fact, the original off court issues surfacing this off-season could be seen as the point for that major setback. Flat out, when you have a player who looks so obviously talented as KPJ and so young, it is always going to set your team back.

He was accelerating our rebuild, now losing his talent and potential hurts us much more than if he had not had any off court issues to speak of.

Josh Gordon was and is WAY more talented than KPJ and actually demonstrated superstar capability on the field. Doesn’t matter if the player is a terminal headcase.

If the Cavaliers had rated him like you did in your previous post and wasted a Top 5 pick on him then I would agree with you that would be a major setback. But they didn’t. Along with every other NBA team they heavily discounted his value because he was suspected to be a headcase and you can’t count on headcases.

I would respectfully suggest to you that you factor in discounting when you rate players. I lived through the 70s and 80s where high level picks and great players were ruined or ended up dead from drugs. It‘s tragic and heartbreaking to see that, but the NBA has adjusted to the reality that what’s between the ears is every bit as important as physical gifts, if not more so. It’s a conceit of modern psychology and HR types that heads can be fixed, but no coach can motivate Derrick Coleman to have Collin Sexton’s attitude. Their heads are part of who they are as much as height, reach, speed etc.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Too many posters here are obsessed with the hot prospect or the "high potential" guy over establishing a sound winning culture, when 99% of the time that guy never hits that potential. Case in point on our own roster, Javale McGee. A guy who was a goldmine of "untapped potential" for literally his entire career that he just never tapped into because the real world isn't a video game and "potential" has a lot of variables we don't see as fans. Few guys ever overcome those variables, and as it has been mentioned around the board, character concerns/off court problems usually aren't overcome.

Again, we are building the first noticeable culture that I have seen in my lifetime that isn't "we have LeBron James", and it is one that prides itself on outworking your opponents both during games and during practice. That is the kind of culture I am not willing to sacrifice for someone given too many chances and never holding up his end of the bargain because that is a culture that can have us developing talent regardless of the draft selection like so many of us have longed for for so long.

There will be another high potential with high risk guy taken by the Cavs, but having an already established culture will benefit the next guy more than KPJ.

For now, good riddance and good luck to him. I'm glad he is gone and isn't threatening what we are building and I am hoping he gets his shit together. Never want to see someone ruin their life at a young age.