2019 Draft, Pick #30 - Kevin Porter Jr., USC

[AllforOne]

I would respectfully suggest to you that you factor in discounting when you rate players. I lived through the 70s and 80s where high level picks and great players were ruined or ended up dead ...

Roy Tarpley, Micheal Ray Richardson, Chris Washburn, Joe Barry Carroll (which gave rise to one of my all-time favorite nicknames, “Joe Barely Cares”), Lewis Lloyd, David Thompson, Mitchell Wiggins (Andrew’s dad BTW), Len Bias ... there will never be a shortage of highly-talented players who piss away their careers because of some reason having nothing to do with their talent.

 

[Triplethreat]

Too many posters here are obsessed with the hot prospect or the "high potential" guy over establishing a sound winning culture, when 99% of the time that guy never hits that potential. Case in point on our own roster, Javale McGee. A guy who was a goldmine of "untapped potential" for literally his entire career that he just never tapped into because the real world isn't a video game and "potential" has a lot of variables we don't see as fans. Few guys ever overcome those variables, and as it has been mentioned around the board, character concerns/off court problems usually aren't overcome.

Again, we are building the first noticeable culture that I have seen in my lifetime that isn't "we have LeBron James", and it is one that prides itself on outworking your opponents both during games and during practice. That is the kind of culture I am not willing to sacrifice for someone given too many chances and never holding up his end of the bargain because that is a culture that can have us developing talent regardless of the draft selection like so many of us have longed for for so long.

There will be another high potential with high risk guy taken by the Cavs, but having an already established culture will benefit the next guy more than KPJ.

For now, good riddance and good luck to him. I'm glad he is gone and isn't threatening what we are building and I am hoping he gets his shit together. Never want to see someone ruin their life at a young age.

Sorry, but that's not how you get to the peak of the mountain in the NBA. Even the Spurs are unable to replicate their early success without the plethora of superstars they had in the early 2000s.

You need talent, and you need TOP END talent to win in this league. A "culture" can only get you so far and it's because of the garbage way the league is set up to where players can force their way anywhere they want to go. No franchise tag, not enough incentive to retain your own guys.

So sure, we're building a "culture", but at the end of the day talent wins out in this league.

 

[Triplethreat]

But here's where a lot of us are coming from.

KPJ was a lotto ticket.

Yes, him being a success would have helped a lot, but when you scratch off a loser, it's not a major setback to your bank account.

It's a major setback to the trajectory of our rebuild. I don't even understand how this can be argued.

KPJ was looking to accelerate it incredibly last year, him falling off has set us back. It's like a stock rising and then crashing.

Imagine if the Warriors had lost Draymond Green before their title runs for example. That would not have been a setback because he was drafted in the second round? That's such an insanely ludicrous argument to be making right now.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Sorry, but that's not how you get to the peak of the mountain in the NBA. Even the Spurs are unable to replicate their early success without the plethora of superstars they had in the early 2000s.

You need talent, and you need TOP END talent to win in this league. A "culture" can only get you so far and it's because of the garbage way the league is set up to where players can force their way anywhere they want to go. No franchise tag, not enough incentive to retain your own guys.

So sure, we're building a "culture", but at the end of the day talent wins out in this league.

Toronto is a great counter. Build a strong team, then make a trade for a disgruntled star to out you over the top.

If you want to talk about growing that talent at home...many drafts have KPJ-level talents who have other concerns that drop their stock. If you want, you can invest future picks in equivalent high risk players moving forward if you wish.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Sorry, but that's not how you get to the peak of the mountain in the NBA. Even the Spurs are unable to replicate their early success without the plethora of superstars they had in the early 2000s.

You need talent, and you need TOP END talent to win in this league. A "culture" can only get you so far and it's because of the garbage way the league is set up to where players can force their way anywhere they want to go. No franchise tag, not enough incentive to retain your own guys.

So sure, we're building a "culture", but at the end of the day talent wins out in this league.

Also add: too many posters are obsessed with reaching the "peak of the mountain". Again, 99% of the time it is never reached. But I would gladly take being the Jazz of the East, always good and competitive and hope luck breaks your way at some point instead of hoping the next GOAT is born in our backyard.

Also, I fail to see how Kevin Porter Jr. is "top end talent" that could help us reach the "top of the mountain", seeing as how he is the topic of conversation. He had flashes as a 19/20 year old, as have countless other NBA players throughout the leagues history. That doesn't guarantee anything, though you are speaking as if it is already so.

Porter is young talent with, obviously, a lot of question marks. But I am not seeing the talent and untapped potential that is worth throwing a fit over like some posters are, especially knowing the off the court story. Sorry to you as well.

 

[inliner311]

I'm not saying removing Porter this season was anything short of the right move.

My point is that based on Porter's results last season and the way he was trending, this is definitely a major setback for our team and rebuild and I don't believe there should be any argument otherwise. In fact, the original off court issues surfacing this off-season could be seen as the point for that major setback. Flat out, when you have a player who looks so obviously talented as KPJ and so young, it is always going to set your team back.

He was accelerating our rebuild, now losing his talent and potential hurts us much more than if he had not had any off court issues to speak of.

I agree it's not how Porter was lost or who is to blame for it, it's the fact we lost a guy that had this level of potential and the front office seem to make decisions with the idea that he was a future piece.

Decision making isn't made in a vacuum so when they were operating that Porter was a untouchable level piece for the rebuild that effected decision making further down the line.

Is Okoro the pick if we don't have the potential offense of Porter. Even the Allen and Prince trade brought in more defensive minded players.

I think the narrative has changed now. Before it was could we become good enough on defense to compete. Now it's more if we can be good enough on offense. Is Sexton and Garland enough scoring if Okoro doesn't develop to a high level scorer? Who is our #3 scoring option long term? Cedi?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

It's a major setback to the trajectory of our rebuild. I don't even understand how this can be argued.

Because many of us weren't considering him a reliable part of that trajectory in the first place. More of an outlier lottery ticket than only had a possibility of paying off.

 

[avs2000]

It's a major setback to the trajectory of our rebuild. I don't even understand how this can be argued.

KPJ was looking to accelerate it incredibly last year, him falling off has set us back. It's like a stock rising and then crashing.

Imagine if the Warriors had lost Draymond Green before their title runs for example. That would not have been a setback because he was drafted in the second round? That's such an insanely ludicrous argument to be making right now.

Not sure why are not getting the fact his physical talent is overwhelmed by his emotional issues. He might get by in the regular season but the off season would/will be a mess
Bottom line is he cannot be counted on. At all.

 

[1B4IGO]

Talent means nothing if the player has no control of himself. We are all aware because of these issues he fell so far In the draft. He is the only one who can change and right now he’s very unwilling.

 

[Triplethreat]

Also add: too many posters are obsessed with reaching the "peak of the mountain". Again, 99% of the time it is never reached. But I would gladly take being the Jazz of the East, always good and competitive and hope luck breaks your way at some point instead of hoping the next GOAT is born in our backyard.

Also, I fail to see how Kevin Porter Jr. is "top end talent" that could help us reach the "top of the mountain", seeing as how he is the topic of conversation. He had flashes as a 19/20 year old, as have countless other NBA players throughout the leagues history. That doesn't guarantee anything, though you are speaking as if it is already so.

Porter is young talent with, obviously, a lot of question marks. But I am not seeing the talent and untapped potential that is worth throwing a fit over like some posters are, especially knowing the off the court story. Sorry to you as well.

I don’t understand the point of playing the game if you’re not trying to win the whole thing.

You’re basically saying you’re content with being the Blazers, Nuggets, etc who can’t and won’t win an NBA title any time soon.

That sucks to me and I say fuck that.

 

[avs2000]

The 30th pick not working out is not a "painful setback" We traded 2 mediocre 2nds, one basically useless 2nd, and one totally useless 2nd for him and got one pretty much useless 2nd back. It was a smart gamble, it simply didn't pay off. But the cost was low, the setback is minor, and if anything it brings our talented young core closer and shows they can trust the FO/coaching staff to do the right thing and put culture and character first.

It seems like there's a few of these types of guys available in the late first/early 2nd round every year. The Cavs can take more swings like that going forward if they want.

But to put a lower ceiling on the Cavs..simply because KPJ is gone... just doesn't make any sense.

Sexton is 22..a budding young star guard..elite scorer and competitor. Team player. Hard worker. Smart.

Garland is 20. Still a long way to go physcially, but already this year has shown huge flashes of potentially already taking a leap. He's been dominant in practice at times and is an extremely skilled and impressive young guard who is perfect for this NBA. Team player. Hard worker. Smart.

Okoro is 19. Already showing signs of being an elite defender, can hit corner threes, great in transition, good passer. Team player. hard worker. Smart.

Jarrett Allen is 22. A true defensive anchor at the 5. Great rebounder, blocks shots. Extremely efficient, Finishes well around the rim, good hands, good FT shooter.

Taurean Prince is only 26 even, has good size, and is a great fit as a 3 and D forward on a reasonable contract, IMO.

Nance Jr is only 28, but is a perfect vet for this team. His Cleveland ties, he's been an elite defender, especially as a team defender...just a great fit, smart guy, positive influence, etc.

Cedi is only 25. is proving to be a legitimate rotation player on a decent contract.


McGee, Drummond, Love are all solid vets that are good pieces to put around young guys...and I anticipate getting assets in return eventually for at least 2 of the three(McGee now, maybe Love next year).

Cavs will have probably another late lottery pick/mid first. Depending on health, future moves, etc.

Cavs are in a great position going forward to build a consistently competitive team. The best strategy is to build a continuous young core, and once you hit on at least a star or two, if you keep your assets open and your powder dry...even small market teams like us could have an opportunity to make a Toronto-esque Kawhi trade to make a title run....

I really truly believe we have two stud guards, both future all-stars. Sexton right now in particular is already pushing into stardom.

Sky is the limit for this organization with what we're currently building.

Could not agree more. We have come a long way since lbj’s last exit. In a short amount of time. Getting Allen was a coup

free agents will not come to Cleve now but if we are a raptor/pacer type team we may have a chance at the one that can put us over

 

[Benway]

I am delighted that this story is over!
No Josh Gordon water torture now.

Moral: Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

Also moral: You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

 

[Triplethreat]

Not sure why are not getting the fact his physical talent is overwhelmed by his emotional issues. He might get by in the regular season but the off season would/will be a mess
Bottom line is he cannot be counted on. At all.

Not sure what level your reading comprehension is on, but I’ll once again summize my previous posting point where I state that I don’t think this is the wrong move.

Stating it isn’t a setback is ludicrous however. It is, and a large one. That was a major talent we just lost.

 

[BimboColesHair]

I don’t understand the point of playing the game if you’re not trying to win the whole thing.

You’re basically saying you’re content with being the Blazers, Nuggets, etc who can’t and won’t win an NBA title any time soon.

That sucks to me and I say fuck that.

No. What I am saying is it is hard to win an NBA title, even more so in a market like Cleveland.

However, in my opinion, it is easier to do so if you maximize your chances. You do that by building a culture of winning and bringing players into that culture and developing them within. Then you either have organic talent developed to make a push with, or you've developed pieces to go after your high tier talent wanting out of their current situations.

You don't do that by just gathering talent for the sake of gathering talent, which is the only reason to hold on to Porter Jr. in light of everything we have heard about him off the floor.

We are clearly trying to build something that will be around regardless of the talent. You want to risk that for Kevin Porter Jr.? I don't. I like him as a player, I like his talent, and I too am sad we won't get to see if the lotto ticket and his potential pan out.

But I'd rather roll with what I believe I am seeing is the culture being built around Sexton, Okoro, Garland, Allen, Cedi, etc. and the want and willingness to put in the work and effort during practice, during the off season, and during games and that turning into wins. That to me is more important than Kevin Porter Jr's talent.

That is how we become a franchise that is consistently good who can produce a chance to go for a championship, as opposed to just gathering talent with no system and no culture, a la the post-LeBron Kyrie era, and being in a constant state of rebuild.

 

[2 For The Brew]

It's a major setback to the trajectory of our rebuild. I don't even understand how this can be argued.

KPJ was looking to accelerate it incredibly last year, him falling off has set us back. It's like a stock rising and then crashing.

Imagine if the Warriors had lost Draymond Green before their title runs for example. That would not have been a setback because he was drafted in the second round? That's such an insanely ludicrous argument to be making right now.

You overvalued the stock from the get go. You stated he was worth a Top 5 pick. The market (the actual NBA market, not your delusion) let him fall to the 30th pick. He had some success last year but certainly did not demonstrate he was a superstar. The issues that tanked his draft value resurfaced after last season ended and got so bad his market value crashed to zero.

You’re arguing with the market, not us. You’re saying the market is wrong and it’s not debatable because you’re smarter than the market. That take isn’t strong enough to classify as weak. In fact it’s so bad we should demand you send each of us a protected second round pick along with your next post from Planet Delusion.

Koby invested four 2nds on this kid plus $5 million of Dan’s money. He just extended him another year recently. Koby and the Cavaliers clearly wanted this to work but KPJ just failed.

I give Koby credit for admitting this didn’t work out and shipping this kid out within a week. Not every executive would do that after just extending because they’re afraid they’ll look bad. Koby didn’t want to do this but he knew he had no choice. Good for him.