2019 Draft, Pick #30 - Kevin Porter Jr., USC

[Cavatt]

Wow. Disgusting sentiment.

 

[Cassity14]

There is a wide spectrum of emotional and/or behavioral disorders that absolutely fall under the umbrella of mental health.

Im not going to speculate further on this specific instance because I don’t know the guy, but let’s at least understand what does and doesn’t exist before starting to justify the same old opinions that got us to today’s mental health stigmas to begin with...

 

[Murph]

I hate to even think this, but the onset of schizophrenia often begins at roughly the age of 20 or 21.

I had a friend in college who was brilliant. He had been accepted into one of the best public high schools in New York City, Bronx Science. He excelled academically at Bronx Science and was a varsity athlete as well. He was accepted into an Ivy League College.

But as he turned 20, his behavior began to change. He began to self medicate with pot and other drugs. He began to become a behavioral problem as well. He was arrested for breaking into a church, and climbing to the top of a bridge. Finally he was expelled from college after getting into a fight with and pulling a knife on a campus security guard.

He was hospitalized and diagnosed with schizophrenia at the age of 20. He has been heavily medicated ever since, for the last 40 years. At times he has been semi-functional. even holding down a full time job. But in general, his mental and physical health have undergone a slow steady decline.

My point is, Kevin Porter is 20, the age when the symptoms of schizophrenia and other mental health issues often begin to manifest themselves.

Let's pray for the best.

 

[Muffinalt]

So if he comes back at the same level, that's another talented and versatile option for this squad. Probably would take Exum's minutes no?

Our bench will be one of the best in the league.

 

[Lee]

So if he comes back at the same level, that's another talented and versatile option for this squad. Probably would take Exum's minutes no?

Our bench will be one of the best in the league.

He wont take many of Exum's minutes. Exum is the backup PG, Garland is the starter, and Sexton is the SG. I think JB wants to keep SG off ball a lot more, focus on his efficient scoring, which has been working.

Dotson and Windler and maybe Okoro and no Nance at the 3 most likely if KPJ can make a comeback.

Really being silent here, and its ok. I personally don't think the rollover car is a concern beyond any injuries he might have. No Chargers, but getting the kids mental issues in check is more important than basketball. Don't want him going down the Delonte path in life

 

[stowfan]

I know absolutely nothing about the young man but he seems to fit the profile of a young man without a strong home background and people always kissing his ass because of his physical talent. Someone who always got a pass and never cared about anyone other than himself. Twenty years ago Ohio state had a running back named Maurice Clarett who was the same way.

 

[blommen]

The amount of arm chair psychology and profiling going on in this thread is pretty fucking distasteful.

 

[Muffinalt]

He wont take many of Exum's minutes. Exum is the backup PG, Garland is the starter, and Sexton is the SG. I think JB wants to keep SG off ball a lot more, focus on his efficient scoring, which has been working.

Dotson and Windler and maybe Okoro and no Nance at the 3 most likely if KPJ can make a comeback.

Really being silent here, and its ok. I personally don't think the rollover car is a concern beyond any injuries he might have. No Chargers, but getting the kids mental issues in check is more important than basketball. Don't want him going down the Delonte path in life

Good points, I just keep thinking about JBB liking KPJ as a primary initiatior off the bench comments. Exum is playing really well in his role now so I don't necessarily want to see his minutes cut, but same goes for Okoro, Cedi, Windler and KPJ. Will be interesting how it balances out.

 

[Aeterna]

Getting back to basketball related topics....check out that move he does on Russell Westbrook at 0:27

He has the shiftiness and handle of Garland with the explosiveness of Sexton in a 6'5 frame. I firmly believe he has the highest potential of all our guards and that's saying something seeing as how Garland and Sexton are playing at an all-star level so far.

If his jumpshot ever becomes consistent, we could possibly have the best guard rotation in the NBA. We would always have at least 2 guards on the court constantly putting pressure on the defense.

 

[Blazie]

Can the "anything that I wouldn't put on my instachat wall is disgusting" people at least concede that it's partially possible that maybe perhaps some personality traits can be learned? A little bit?

Trying to soft-land this point so that it doesn't offend sensibilities...

Also, one of my degrees is in psychology, so there's slightly less "armchair" here than you'd expect on a forum like this...

 

[kidduck]

At some point the Cavs organization and KPJ will clue everyone else
in on what has been going on .

I don't need to know any intimate/sensitive details. I hope Porter
gets his head on straight and lives a contented life, basketball
included or not.

The modern hunger to invade anothers' privacy, even those
who are complete strangers, for no reason
beyond titillation is boorish behavior.

Why not enjoy the current team and let the off court stuff
resolve itself ?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Wow. Disgusting sentiment.

There is a wide spectrum of emotional and/or behavioral disorders that absolutely fall under the umbrella of mental health.

Im not going to speculate further on this specific instance because I don’t know the guy, but let’s at least understand what does and doesn’t exist before starting to justify the same old opinions that got us to today’s mental health stigmas to begin with...

First, there isn't any evidence that he actually has any of those "emotional and/or behavior" disorders. That's something about which you guys are speculating as a possible explanation for his behavior.

Second, even if he did have something that qualified as a "disorder", that wouldn't necessary mean his conduct is excusable. Antisocial Personality Disorder, Borderline Personality Order, and Narcissistic Personal Disorder are examples of legit "disorders" that can lead to shitty behavior, but we wouldn't consider any of those as a justification or excuse for bad conduct. Would we? I mean, it would be pretty easy to rattle off a list of people who had/have some of those, and I don't think many people here would say we shouldn't judge such people because they had a "disorder". People are still responsible for the shit they do regardless of whether or not a label can be attached to it.

Point is, there is a huge difference between unfairly stigmatizing someone because of a mental illness -- such as depression -- and judging/holding people accountable for shitty behavior. The idea that we shouldn't criticize someone who behaves poorly because they might have a mental disorder is not only poor reasoning, but unfairly lumps together all forms of mental illness as being excusable or worthy of genuine sympathy.

KPJ isn't able to play because he has engaged in some undesirable behaviors, the full extent of which we probably don't know. We have seen some of it, though. It's perfectly fair for fans to blame him for that, and also to opine as to whether or not they think he should be retained. Obviously, we don't have complete knowledge all the facts, so some of those opinions will be pulled from our sphincters. But then, that applies to a whole bunch of the opinions we express, so why should this be any different?

 

[Cassity14]

First, there isn't any evidence that he actually has any of those "emotional and/or behavior" disorders. That's something about which you guys are speculating as a possible explanation for his behavior.

Second, even if he did have something that qualified as a "disorder", that wouldn't necessary mean his conduct is excusable. Antisocial Personality Disorder, Borderline Personality Order, and Narcissistic Personal Disorder are examples of legit "disorders" that can lead to shitty behavior, but we wouldn't consider any of those as a justification or excuse for bad conduct. Would we? People are still responsible for the shit they do regardless of whether or not a label ban be attached to it.

Point is, there is a huge difference between unfairly stigmatizing someone because of a mental illness -- such as depression -- and excusing conduct that hurts others. The idea that we shouldn't criticize someone who behaves poorly because they might have a mental disorder is not only poor reasoning, but unfairly lumps together all forms of mental illness as being excusable or worthy of genuine sympathy.

Im not against criticizing things the guy actually did.

I am against a guy, who we understand to be struggling with some mental issues (of his own admitting as well as what we’ve read over the past year), having profiles assumptions made against him in here.

As far as hard proof, I mean, no, we don’t have any. That’s very much the nature of mental illness, however. Was there proof that Kevin Love was depressed that the average Joe fan could see? Of course not.

Id argue we have more proof that he has underlying issues than that he’s just a shitty human being at age 20.

I’m personally not excusing his behavior, so I’m sorry if I was unclear about that. It’s obviously unacceptable and I support the firm stance the Cavs appear to be taking regarding it. I also really support the Cavs for clearly seeing the need to have him in structure around the team even though he needs to be punished in some way. That shows me that they get it.

EDIT: I’m sorry the quotes got all mixed up on mobile. @Blazie your name got attached to Tip’s post as I was originally going to rely to both at once, but that would have made a larger wall of text.

 

[kidduck]

' We know what we are, but know not what we may be.'

William Shakespeare

 

[Jordan]

First, there isn't any evidence that he actually has any of those "emotional and/or behavior" disorders. That's something about which you guys are speculating as a possible explanation for his behavior.

Second, even if he did have something that qualified as a "disorder", that wouldn't necessary mean his conduct is excusable. Antisocial Personality Disorder, Borderline Personality Order, and Narcissistic Personal Disorder are examples of legit "disorders" that can lead to shitty behavior, but we wouldn't consider any of those as a justification or excuse for bad conduct. Would we? I mean, it would be pretty easy to rattle off a list of people who had/have some of those, and I don't think many people here would say we shouldn't judge such people because they had a "disorder". People are still responsible for the shit they do regardless of whether or not a label can be attached to it.

Point is, there is a huge difference between unfairly stigmatizing someone because of a mental illness -- such as depression -- and judging/holding people accountable for shitty behavior. The idea that we shouldn't criticize someone who behaves poorly because they might have a mental disorder is not only poor reasoning, but unfairly lumps together all forms of mental illness as being excusable or worthy of genuine sympathy.

KPJ isn't able to play because he has engaged in some undesirable behaviors, the full extent of which we probably don't know. We have seen some of it, though. It's perfectly fair for fans to blame him for that, and also to opine as to whether or not they think he should be retained. Obviously, we don't have complete knowledge all the facts, so some of those opinions will be pulled from our sphincters. But then, that applies to a whole bunch of the opinions we express, so why should this be any different?

Also, as somebody with depression that has been suicidal before, is on meds, and does weekly therapy, I'd like to point out that it is pretty distasteful to just use it as an excuse to justify behavior.

There is a stigma around mental health. There is a stigma around personality disorders. Sometimes these are related. But treating them all the same is both offensive and, if anything, increases the stigma around both.

Finally, and this is something I was trying to get at earlier, there is no point in playing armchair psychologist because within all of these disorders there is a variety of other causal factors in brain chemistry. Ex: some eating disorders are very related to diagnosable OCD, others are not. So, as you point out, I think it is perfectly fair to say that, as an employee, KPJ's behavior is not necessarily disqualifying, but absolutely alarming and raises red flags. At the same time, props to the Cavs for trying to help him out.

Obviously we all want this to work. Frankly, I am impressed by the Cavs' maturity on this, and I think that, if they have anything to say about it, that it will work. No point in speculating what he is doing rightly/wrongly. Your last sentence is the absolutely perfect way to describe it.