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2019 Minor League Thread

sportscoach

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Absolutely, and if we didn't already have a great defensive CF in Zimmer, I'd be more than willing to give him time to grow there. He certainly has the physical tools.



But Mercado isn't a plus in CF, at least not yet. Downgrading your defense in center to upgrade in a corner makes no sense to me.
I really mean it as this, in my mind Mercado will hurt us in the corners right now and I am not sure if one off season will make him improve enough in the corners so that he won't be doing us going forward next season there, while in CF I feel he can develop with the time to be above average with his natural athleticism and seems like natural potential there. I guess in my mind lets just use simple numbers, if Zimmer is a 90 (out of 100) in CF and an 80 in the corners while Mercado is in 80 in CF and a 65 in the corners, I would rather have the 80 in both spots not 90 in one and 65 in the other. Thats just how I feel about it, but I get your logic too, I just do not trust Mercado in the corner positions at all next season and until he proves me wrong otherwise I will keep that opinion of him.

(though eventually I would like to see the actually zone ratings you guys like to use on both guys to see how big of a difference there is between the two guys since the basic numbers don't actually support a large difference like you are saying).

2020 is to me the year we have to win it all as well, so I am sure the coaches will make the best decision in the end.
 

Urban

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I am aware of both his history and the fact he is still learning the OF, but to me it just doesn't look like one of those guys who will never be great on the corners in the OF. I mean I could be wrong, and this is just my opinion, but he just feels like that guy who plays much much better when it comes to reading the ball and whatnot from the center of the diamond. I don't think he reads the ball well nor understands how to play LF/RF all that well either so there is two things against him. I know in due time he will get better at that, but I was really asking what is the difference between Zimmer and Mercado's zone ratings (aka I want some actual stats) and whatnot in CF since I know Zimmer will be plus in the corners so to me if Zimmer is plus anywhere and Mercado is only plus in CF, I would rather have Zimmer in the corner and not put Mercado in a position he is less than average at.
Respectively, this is kind of an outrageous conclusion to come to after 160 innings worth of time in LF. And he doesn't have to be great.

CF.PNG

This is about 2 years old now, but relevant in this instance:

 

Cassity14

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I really mean it as this, in my mind Mercado will hurt us in the corners right now and I am not sure if one off season will make him improve enough in the corners so that he won't be doing us going forward next season there, while in CF I feel he can develop with the time to be above average with his natural athleticism and seems like natural potential there. I guess in my mind lets just use simple numbers, if Zimmer is a 90 (out of 100) in CF and an 80 in the corners while Mercado is in 80 in CF and a 65 in the corners, I would rather have the 80 in both spots not 90 in one and 65 in the other. Thats just how I feel about it, but I get your logic too, I just do not trust Mercado in the corner positions at all next season and until he proves me wrong otherwise I will keep that opinion of him.

(though eventually I would like to see the actually zone ratings you guys like to use on both guys to see how big of a difference there is between the two guys since the basic numbers don't actually support a large difference like you are saying).

2020 is to me the year we have to win it all as well, so I am sure the coaches will make the best decision in the end.
What does Mercado struggle with in the corners that he doesn't struggle with in center?
 

Derek

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What does Mercado struggle with in the corners that he doesn't struggle with in center?
It's just a comfortability issue. He only played 34 games and 272-ish innings there in his minor league career.
 

sportscoach

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Respectively, this is kind of an outrageous conclusion to come to after 160 innings worth of time in LF



This is about 2 years old now, but relevant in this instance:

Thanks for the info, since most of the regular stats put them way closer together than that! Still a positive rating, but Zimmer from that instance is the better player. Question is @Urban do you think Zimmer can really be the everyday bat though? He hasn't been able to prove that he can just yet when he was healthy. Though we all love his energy he brings.

What does Mercado struggle with in the corners that he doesn't struggle with in center?
It's one of those eye test opinions in a sense, so this is just my opinion being stated and I am not no actual scout so take it with a grain of salt. Mercado to me doesn't read the ball off the bat well to begin with and is something he needs to work on. He has always played up the middle so when it comes to reading the ball, he just sees it better in the CF than he does in the corners. He isn't in my mind a great route runner to the ball either. Mercado makes up for the issues with pure natural speed and athleticism. So with that opinion of mine, the fact he reads slower in the corners and doesn't take good routes to begin with, he will get to the ball way slower and make more errors because of the inexperience out there. I just dont know if one off season would be enough time to get him to a level that is at least league average in my mind.
 

sportscoach

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onto another topic (which I have been trying to post lol)


Well this is just a random thing to look at, from what I can see the Indians who got selected where, 3B Nolan Jones, OF Will Benson (His season before the promotion was pretty solid), P Ethan Hankins and C Bryan Lavastida

@Derek @EdMonix11 @AZ_ and anyone else who wants to pitch in to this idea,

How would you guys rank out catching prospects? I don't know much about Lavastida, so anything to know about him?

Logan Ice to be has never produced in the minors, but I know he was supposed to be a defensive minded catcher. Li-Jen Chu to me looks like the better of the two catchers at AA, but with him being hurt this season and being an older AA, not sure how much they effected his status as well.

I know catching isn't really all that important right now with two solid guys under team control in the majors, plus Haase, so this is just more curiosity than anything else from me.
 

Urban

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Thanks for the info, since most of the regular stats put them way closer together than that! Still a positive rating, but Zimmer from that instance is the better player. Question is @Urban do you think Zimmer can really be the everyday bat though? He hasn't been able to prove that he can just yet when he was healthy. Though we all love his energy he brings.
That, along with his health, is the million dollar question. We'll have to wait to see, I'm cautiously optimistic that he can contribute more than he has shown.
 

Derek

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Thanks for the info, since most of the regular stats put them way closer together than that! Still a positive rating, but Zimmer from that instance is the better player. Question is @Urban do you think Zimmer can really be the everyday bat though? He hasn't been able to prove that he can just yet when he was healthy. Though we all love his energy he brings.
Even with Zimmer's struggles at the plate (75 wRC+), he's still been worth 1.8 WAR over 136 career games compared to Mercado's 1.6 over 103 career games. It really speaks to Zimmer's defensive value that he has the WAR of a solid every day player despite being 25% below average at the plate.

There's also a lot of reasons to be optimistic about Zimmer at the plate.

In AAA this year, he posted a 23.1% strikeout rate. On it's own, that's nothing special, but prior to his call up he was over 30% across 70 AAA games. He hasn't posted a rate that low since A+
 

Urban

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Jackie Bradley Jr would be a good projection for Zimmer. Fewer HR and more steals
 

Derek

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Jackie Bradley Jr would be a good projection for Zimmer. Fewer HR and more steals
I don't even know if you should say less HR. Bradley has only hit 20+ once, and I don't think there's any reason Zimmer can't do that if he can stay healthy.
 

Kevalier

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Even with Zimmer's struggles at the plate (75 wRC+), he's still been worth 1.8 WAR over 136 career games compared to Mercado's 1.6 over 103 career games. It really speaks to Zimmer's defensive value that he has the WAR of a solid every day player despite being 25% below average at the plate.

There's also a lot of reasons to be optimistic about Zimmer at the plate.

In AAA this year, he posted a 23.1% strikeout rate. On it's own, that's nothing special, but prior to his call up he was over 30% across 70 AAA games. He hasn't posted a rate that low since A+
Zimmer’s refined stance has me much more encouraged regarding his offensive profile. He seems to be imitating Yelich’s stance at the plate, and I can’t think of too many other LHB batters over 6’3 better to replicate. He’s much more upright now instead of crouching.

A04180AD-FD12-4286-850C-4589FE8A2A45.jpeg

5FCC337E-44AC-4459-8645-3657202ABF4E.jpeg
 

Lee

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Absolutely, and if we didn't already have a great defensive CF in Zimmer, I'd be more than willing to give him time to grow there. He certainly has the physical tools.



But Mercado isn't a plus in CF, at least not yet. Downgrading your defense in center to upgrade in a corner makes no sense to me.
Can you learn to play CF better by playing a corner spot? Or is center to unique of an OF position that growing only happens while playing center?
 

Urban

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48. Jones
71. McKenzie
81. Freeman
84. Allen
89. Valera

#10 Overall Farm System (was #12, jumped Seattle. Houston fell out of the Top 10 after Greinke trade & Yordan Alvarez graduation)
9/3 Update

46. Jones
71. Freeman
83. McKenzie
85. Valera

NR. L Allen
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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Can you learn to play CF better by playing a corner spot? Or is center to unique of an OF position that growing only happens while playing center?
The more Mercado plays OF, the more comfortable he will be out there.

Each spot's different. The balls have different trajectories in the corners--and to me that's what Mercado's struggled with the most. He seems to get crossed up occasionally, not understanding where the ball is going to end up.
 

chuck0609

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There is a huge difference between Mercado and Zimmer in CF. Zimmer was borderline GG caliber, and Mercado is merely average. Moving Zimmer out of CF for Mercado would be inexcusable defensively.

LF is monumentally easier, especially in Cleveland, and with a little practice, that should be Mercado's home.
This is very logical even for a casual fan. Zimmer’s range and jump off the bat were/are elite. It’s not a knock on Oscar, just an acknowledgement of Zimmer’s defensive talent.
The only issue long term is Zimmers bat.
 

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