2020 Minor League Thread

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MadThinker88

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Any favorites you see?.. perhaps the Aristides Aquino trade suggestion?
When did you make that suggestion as a target for Eli??
And I made a suggested target for a trade of Eli Morgan - Cameron Junker (Pitts). Waiting to hear your thoughts.
 

Gson

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If all you're going to look at is height and weight, then I can't take you seriously as an evaluator. Production matters. Eli Morgan was the most productive pitcher in our minor league system last year. If he can even become an occasional spot starter that bounces between AAA and the majors with mixed results, there's value in that depth. Not every guy needs to turn into Bieber.

If you want to point to the actual red flags like his increased walk rate in AA, or that as an extreme fly ball pitcher, he's unlikely to maintain his low HR/FB%, go for it. However, ruling guys out based on their stature is outdated.

I'm not betting on Morgan to become anything more than a depth guy, but he has a ceiling higher than that. There's certainly no reason to trade him unless it's as part of a package for immediate MLB help.
again with the strawman argument..

...in no way shape or form is the sole and exclusive evaluation based on height and weight.. That is wrong.. you know it's wrong.. yet... here we are..

smh..

Soft tossing little guys make their bones in sunday beer leagues.. not at the ML level.. Being able to spin a curve ball to A+ guys can and usually is effective.. TRADE THAT GUY BEFORE THE CARRIAGE TURNS INTO A PUMPKIN..
 

Gson

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When did you make that suggestion as a target for Eli??
And I made a suggested target for a trade of Eli Morgan - Cameron Junker (Pitts). Waiting to hear your thoughts.
sorry.. I haven't really looked into Junker.. but will..

First blush..

Pure RP.. has the body and velo to dominate at any level.. Not exactly thrilled with the tilt on his slider, but, that could improve as he comes from cold country. Great FB with more there, there.. In short season ball.. he was pretty good until he got to the last part of his season when he got very good.. pitching in ten games.. 13 IP, allowing 5 hits/4BB while striking out 20.. This is a guy that could skip a level and still be worthy of consideration in a deal, but not as a front line guy.. more as the added guy..
 
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MadThinker88

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sorry.. I haven't really looked into Junker.. but will..
Perhaps some of this would help..


https://piratesprospects.com/cameron-junker


Why am I interested: He could be another quick riser thru a farm system (any system). He is a college arm that started in college & transitioned to the bullpen after being drafted. Yes he is wild but if the Tribe coaches can help with the control, he could become a 3rd power arm in a bullpen with Clase & Karinchak. As a plus he is a year of 2 behind those guys which might help the Tribe down the road staggering guys/ contracts.
 

Derek

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again with the strawman argument..

...in no way shape or form is the sole and exclusive evaluation based on height and weight.. That is wrong.. you know it's wrong.. yet... here we are..

smh..

Soft tossing little guys make their bones in sunday beer leagues.. not at the ML level.. Being able to spin a curve ball to A+ guys can and usually is effective.. TRADE THAT GUY BEFORE THE CARRIAGE TURNS INTO A PUMPKIN..
How is it a strawman? You literally refer to his build in every post you make about him. Even in this post, you refer to him as a soft-tossing little guy.

Tell me why his stuff doesn't translate. We all know his fastball isn't his bread and butter, but his change is a plus pitch. He'll certainly need to improve his secondary offerings to stick in any decent rotation, but his change alone should at least give him a chance to have a career in the bullpen if starting doesn't work out.

You also keep making posts that insinuate that he's either never pitched above A+ or that he's never had success above A+. I'm not sure which it is, but neither is true.

I just don't understand why there is an incentive to trade him!? He costs us next to nothing, and his value is too low (same with most non-top prospects) to make a trade worth it. If he were a top 100 guy with value, I would understand wanting to get out while the getting is good, but that's not the case here.

If you don't like him, just say that. I've already said that my expectations for him are not that high. The "trade him now" rhetoric is just odd.
 

MadThinker88

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Derek - I would be interested in your thoughts about a Morgan for Junker deal.

I think we share a similar viewpoint on Morgan but I would be looking to capture & utilize value where I could. Considering Morgan is Rule 5 eligible come December (unless there is a rule change), I would be more interested in trading Morgan than losing him as a Rule 5 pick or losing another talented player (as I protected Morgan)..
 

Derek

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Derek - I would be interested in your thoughts about a Morgan for Junker deal.

I think we share a similar viewpoint on Morgan but I would be looking to capture & utilize value where I could. Considering Morgan is Rule 5 eligible come December (unless there is a rule change), I would be more interested in trading Morgan than losing him as a Rule 5 pick or losing another talented player (as I protected Morgan)..
I think it's a no-brainer that Morgan ends up on the 40 man roster, so I don't see the rule 5 draft being an issue. If there were a full season this year, he'd likely have a chance to debut at some point.

I'm not a fan of trading an upper-level (AA/AAA) starter for a lower-level reliever even though Junker appears to have good arm talent. However, he's only a year younger and has only pitched at A- where Morgan had slightly better results across the board while pitching a similar amount of innings back in 2017.
 

Tondo

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Agree with Derek. What's the point of successfully developing an 8th rd college pick and then just trade him away at maturation? Instead, use him as cheap depth in AAA with options and see how he does when called upon.
This sort of prospect fatigue seems to happen to a lot of internal upper level prospects. It certainly happened to Civale and it's happening to Bobby Bradley.

I believe it is the infatuation with younger, lower level prospects due to deeper and better prospect coverage. I love FanGraphs, but they're culpable of that, especially covering the Indians. Constantly overlooking and undervaluing "older" upper level prospects (Bieber, Civale, Karinchak, Plesac, F. Reyes, Luplow) while hyping up lower level guys (Chang and Hentges most prominently).
 

MadThinker88

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Tondo - I don't recall prospect any fatigue with Civale. He was drafted in 2016 & in the majors during 2019. That is fast even with the injury issues Civale had in 2018.
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Tondo/Derek - Yes, Eli is starting depth at this point but I believe he is much further down the list then people realize (like 12th or 13th on the starter list).
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Re: Junker
This is a guy that could skip a level and still be worthy of consideration in a deal, but not as a front line guy.. more as the added guy..
GSon - you have made it clear you don't think highly of Eli Morgan & your desire to see him dealt. Fair enough. What do you think your realistically going to get for Morgan alone? The idea of Seattle's N. Marte is way off base (like getting 24 oz prime rib for $2)
 

Tondo

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With Civale, as with Morgan, it's more of a prospect oversight. Both topped out around 20th on lists and were/are pushed down when they reached the upper levels.
Civale was an afterthought entering 2019 and Morgan is now pretty much where Civale was last year and he's not even appearing on top 30 lists anymore, despite a good year in AA.
 

sportscoach

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Morgan won't get us anything in a trade so there isn't any point of trading him at the end of the day. I think majority of us believe he will have some innings in the pros within the next season or two.

Morgan in other organizations would actually have had a chance to make the team this season, but as @MadThinker88 stated, he is down on the list to make an appearance in the pros, but as @Derek stated, his minor league numbers state there is no way we don't add him to the roster next season before the Rule 5 draft since he is doing so well.

@Gson if we would trade Morgan it would be similar to what we did with Mathias last season. It would be for a non-30 ranked prospect from another team and likely an A ball player. Honestly i think that would be a mistake to make that type of move, but that really is who we will get so in my mind, its not worth it especially when we shouldn't see a big drop off in the roster even if Lindor leaves and we trade Ramirez (no reason to keep him if Santana and Lindor have left).

Though when it comes to the draft, who in the draft @MadThinker88 and whomever else wants to chime in, who in this draft hitting wise could we see in the pros quickly? I feel that should almost be our target since we have a ton of talent at A ball/rookie league, but I wouldn't mind someone who can hit soon for the pro team if all possible.
 

MadThinker88

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Though when it comes to the draft, who in the draft @MadThinker88 and whomever else wants to chime in, who in this draft hitting wise could we see in the pros quickly? I feel that should almost be our target since we have a ton of talent at A ball/rookie league, but I wouldn't mind someone who can hit soon for the pro team if all possible.
TBH I am not a knowledgeable guy with regards to the MLB draft.
Guys like Tondo (& OhioBaseball, MartyinNY & WahooPreacher) are much more into the draft & could provide much better insight into how the Tribe could/ should go then I could.
 

MadThinker88

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Since Sportscoach & others were asking for a peak...

This is an INTERIM report from the composite ranking file I am pulling together of the various published ranking for the Tribe prospects. Top 34 spots are shown below. At the moment 6 of the 8 data points entered on the main page (other pg 1 & others pg 2 still have to be completed & added in).
Overall there are over 35 sources plugged into the excel file.

In this model: the lower the point total/ the higher ranked a prospect is, the better (1 = 1, 10 = 10, 30 = 30 & so forth)

Tribe Prospect Ranking (2019-20)
RANK​
Avg rank Player Name
1
1.167​
Nolan Jones : 3B
2
4.000​
George Valera: OF
3
4.333​
Tyler Freeman: SS
4
4.500​
Brayan Rocchio: SS
5
5.167​
Bo Naylor: C
6
6.500​
Daniel Espino: RHP
7
7.333​
Triston McKenzie : RHP
8
8.333​
Ethan Hankins: RHP
9
9.833​
Aaron Bracho: SS
10
10.000​
Logan Allen: LHP
11
12.333​
James Karinchak: RHP
12
12.833​
Emmanuel Clase: RHP
13
13.000​
Daniel Johnson: OF
14
14.600​
Gabriel Rodriguez: SS
15
16.333​
Bobby Bradley : 1B
16
16.400​
Carlos Vargas: RHP
17
16.500​
Scott Moss: LHP
18
16.833​
Yu Chang : SS/3B
19
19.000​
Angel Martinez: SS
20
19.167​
Lenny Torres Jr: RHP
21
19.333​
Sam Hentges : SP
22
20.833​
Will Benson : OF
23
21.167​
Luis Oviedo: RHP
24
21.400​
Jose Tena: SS
25
22.167​
Nick Sandlin: RHP
26
24.500​
Eli Morgan: RHP
27
25.167​
Jose Fermin: 2B/SS
28
25.250​
Junior Sanquintin: SS
29
25.333​
Oscar Gonzalez : OF
30
25.833​
Cody Morris: RHP
31
26.000​
Ernie Clement : SS/2B
32
26.333​
Jean Carlos Mejia: RHP
33
26.833​
Richard Palacios: INF
34
27.667​
Hunter Gaddis: RHP
 
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Tondo

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Thanks, that list is not bad. Little too low on Morris and Mejia, but pretty good overall. What's disappointing is that a bunch of HS picks that got 900K to 1M (rightfully) don't even appear here, Valdes, Holmes, Cairo, Delgado. They're still young, but the early returns have been underwhelming.
And you asked for a list to move up, it definitely should be Prospects Live, who delivered one of the best Indians Top 30 this offseason. They're Top List material and beat all but FG in your Group 1 bunch.
 

Tondo

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Though when it comes to the draft, who in the draft @MadThinker88 and whomever else wants to chime in, who in this draft hitting wise could we see in the pros quickly? I feel that should almost be our target since we have a ton of talent at A ball/rookie league, but I wouldn't mind someone who can hit soon for the pro team if all possible.
I don't believe it'll influence Barnsby's selection, but college hitting appears to be the weakest group, but still solid in a 5 or 10 round draft setting. I don't see any fast moving bats outside of A. Martin or Torkelson, who will both go in the top 5 picks. BTW, Indians drafted A. Martin and Lacy out of HS late in the 2017 draft, both are top talents now.

The 2nd tier of college bats is one I'd like to avoid, as I believe they're overrated. Only C Bailey interests me at 23, but he'll most likely be off the board too by then. I'd stay away from Casey Martin, Wesburg and D. Cabrera.

Both Foscue and Wells are interesting and those should move fastest, especially Wells if moved to 1B from C. They're projected to go in the late 1st to 2nd range.
 

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