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2020 NBA Draft

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inliner311 said:
Haliburton is more of a proven shooter than Garland. Mechanics are alittle weird but he shot 40+% both years in college and seem to already move his range out to the NBA 3. I wouldn't discount the length and height over Garland in making him more versatile and playable in a wide variety of lineups. At this point Garland wouldn't stop me from drafting Haliburton. Haliburton shows he can catch and shoot very well in college. I would project him to guard SGs for the Cavs and pair with either Garland or Sexton. He might be the ideal for next to Sexton.

If Haliburton is the best player left on the board at #5, I don't think his current weight and natural position should stop us from drafting him. He will fill out and be able to guard SGs. With any luck, he might get strong enough over time to guard SFs in certain lines ups. Surprisingly his measurable are right there with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander.
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I actually think he'd be a great fit next to Sexton, if I thought he was a much better prospect than some of these other guys, I would be happy to get him. Haliburton is a good prospect but he has his flaws too, he has a thin frame, seems to avoid contact in the paint and doesn't get to the free throw line. I think that limits his upside. He seems like more of a secondary ball handler/spot up shooter to me more than a lead guard type. I'm not convinced that he's significantly better than Garland, other than being taller, that's why I wouldn't take him.
 
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inliner311 said:
Haliburton is more of a proven shooter than Garland. Mechanics are alittle weird but he shot 40+% both years in college and seem to already move his range out to the NBA 3. I wouldn't discount the length and height over Garland in making him more versatile and playable in a wide variety of lineups. At this point Garland wouldn't stop me from drafting Haliburton. Haliburton shows he can catch and shoot very well in college. I would project him to guard SGs for the Cavs and pair with either Garland or Sexton. He might be the ideal for next to Sexton.

If Haliburton is the best player left on the board at #5, I don't think his current weight and natural position should stop us from drafting him. He will fill out and be able to guard SGs. With any luck, he might get strong enough over time to guard SFs in certain lines ups. Surprisingly his measurable are right there with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander.
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Haliburton's excellent assist:TO numbers also set him apart from Garland. Garland was/is baaaaarely a good enough passer to credibly play PG. Haliburton definitely checks that box.
 
Nathan S said:
Haliburton's excellent assist:TO numbers also set him apart from Garland. Garland was/is baaaaarely a good enough passer to credibly play PG. Haliburton definitely checks that box.
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I like the player he has become, but I don't know if I like him as much as a top five pick. Remember that he is 20 years old. How much better would Wiseman, Okongwu, or Avdija be with another year and a half to develop?

I've compared Haliburton favorably to a few players including Delly, including that accurate but slow release. My favorite comp is for old hoops heads: plays like current Trailblazers coach Nate McMillan played next to Gary Payton back in the glory years for the Sonics. He's incredibly efficient and defends both guard spots, but I don't know how much he can score without a change in his release.
 
Tier 1
1. LaMelo Ball

Tier 2
2. Tyrese Haliburton
3. Onyeka Okongwu
4. Killian Hayes
5. Anthony Edwards
6. James Wiseman

Tier 3
7. Aleksej Pokusevski
8. Devin Vassell
9. Josh Green
10. Malachi Flynn
11. Tre Jones
13. RJ Hampton
14. Nate Hinton

Tier 4
15. Theo Maledon
16. Vernon Carey
17. Isaac Okoro
18. Deni Avdija
19. Xavier Tillman
20. Reggie Perry
21. Nico Mannion
22. Leandro Bolmaro
23. Devon Dotson
24. Trevelin Queen
25. Jalen Smith
26. Paul Reed
27. Kira Lewis Jr.
28. Obi Toppin
29. Mason Jones
30. Jahmi'us Ramsey

Tier 5

31. Patrick Williams
32. Marko Simonovic
33. Payton Pritchard
34. Desmond Bane
35. Killian Tillie
36. Nathan Knight
37. Saddiq Bey
38. Lamine Diane
39. Vit Krejci
40. Daniel Oturu
41. Zeke Nnaji
42. Jalen Harris
43. Ashton Hagans
44. Filip Petrusev
45. Tres Tinkle
46. Aaron Nesmith
47. Grant Riller
48. Markus Howard
49. Isaiah Stewart
50. Tyler Bey
51. Cole Anthony
52. Ty-Shon Alexander
53. Tyrell Terry
54. Tyrese Maxey
55. Saben Lee
56. Yam Madar
57. Precious Achiuwa
58. Rokas Jokubaitis
59. Aaron Nesmith
60. Immanuel Quickley
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You got some major balls to post this board. Kudos brother.
I can't wait to bring this board up when we have more data,..whether you are correct or wrong. but hopefully wrong for the lols :)
 
Randolphkeys said:
I like the player he has become, but I don't know if I like him as much as a top five pick. Remember that he is 20 years old. How much better would Wiseman, Okongwu, or Avdija be with another year and a half to develop?

I've compared Haliburton favorably to a few players including Delly, including that accurate but slow release. My favorite comp is for old hoops heads: plays like current Trailblazers coach Nate McMillan played next to Gary Payton back in the glory years for the Sonics. He's incredibly efficient and defends both guard spots, but I don't know how much he can score without a change in his release.
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It's a valid question, and I want to be clear that while I ended up putting Haliburton at #2, my opinion is that he, Okongwu, Hayes, Edwards, and Wiseman are approximately equally promising prospects. While I think Wiseman and to a (slightly) lesser extent Okongwu have very high ceilings, both have bust potential offensively if they don't make the improvements people are anticipating (shooting/passing/ballhandling). Edwards and Hayes, similarly, have issues of efficiency on offense and lapses of focus on defense that they need to clean up to be good players, and that's not a given.

I also got cold feet on Deni looking at his numbers again this morning. Numbers are numbers, I know, but 33% from 3 and 59% from the line is awfully marginal. I think there's a bust scenario for him where he ends up just being a ~30% 3-point shooter in the NBA, which would really make it tough for him to carve out a role in the modern NBA. I don't know how likely it is, but it's on my mind when I think about the Cavs drafting him.
 
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
You got some major balls to post this board. Kudos brother.
I can't wait to bring this board up when we have more data,..whether you are correct or wrong. but hopefully wrong for the lols :)
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I've had my fair share of hits and misses the last couple years, and I'm looking forward to collecting some more this year lol.
 
Nathan S said:
Yeah, it's because I'm also including Euroleague (13/47 from 3) and Israeli League playoffs (5/25 from 3)
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I didn't realize the site I looked at didn't include playoffs. Still, his three point stroke is heading in the right direction since the break in between Euroleague and Israeli League, and improvement is worth something with a young 19 year old.

Sir'Dom Pointer said:
There is no EL and Israeli league playoffs in the NBA. However, there is regular season in the NBA, so therefore we are going by Key's stats :)
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My snarky answer would be "Well the NCAA playoffs sure as shit didn't count."
 
Randolphkeys said:
I didn't realize the site I looked at didn't include playoffs. Still, his three point stroke is heading in the right direction since the break in between Euroleague and Israeli League, and improvement is worth something with a young 19 year old.
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I definitely agree; last year for instance he shot 28% from 3 and 51% from the line. Obviously if he had replicated those numbers this year, his 3-point shot would be a much bigger concern. Instead he improved significantly in both areas, by 5 percentage points from 3, and by 8 percentage points from the line. On that trajectory, he's just a year or two away from being a totally solid shooter, and I think that's a probable outcome given that there aren't any glaring flaws with his form or anything.

Still, there's a shadow of doubt there that doesn't exist for other wings who have proven that they can shoot mid-30's or better from 3 and mid-70's or better from the line for a full season.
 
Nathan S said:
Still, there's a shadow of doubt there that doesn't exist for other wings who have proven that they can shoot mid-30's or better from 3 and mid-70's or better from the line for a full season.
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Would you agree your rankings put a much higher premium on shooting efficiency than other aspects of the game?
 
Randolphkeys said:
Would you agree your rankings put a much higher premium on shooting efficiency than other aspects of the game?
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My statistical rankings like 3-point volume, free throw volume, offensive rebounds, steals, and assist:TO ratio (in no particular order) based on a statistical regression on players drafted roughly 10-20 years ago. So Deni's middling 3-point percentage isn't what hurts him at that point in my analysis (free throw volume and offensive rebounds are bigger issues). I do try to take more of a critical look at shooting efficiency when I make my final rankings.
 
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