2020 NBA Draft

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MirORich

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Just because I don't agree with the majority doesn't mean I'm trolling. If we want to build a championship team, it starts with ball movement & good defense. Our pg doesn't need to have great assist percentages to be effective.

Just my opinion of course. We have different views on the game of basketball. I respect your views, I suppose I expect the same.
His criticism wasn’t based on what you just said above in this last post.

It was based on you using about 5-6 data points and decisions made by previous GMs(some of them close to a decade ago) to say that you have no confidence in Koby Altman and that you could do a better job then him.

If you have an argument to make about that, hoe about eliminating the past decisions of Chris Grant and David Griffin, and instead using the bad, good, and yet to be determined decisions, trades, signings, extensions, and picks actually made by Koby.

And if you do that, please include as many as possible rather than just a fillet point list of only the ones you consider bad.

In other words, I think Keys was just asking for a quality post that backed up the claim being made with actual points and counterpoints instead of using multiple decisions made by previous regimes to show why you have no faith in the current GM.
 

CleveRocks

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His criticism wasn’t based on what you just said above in this last post.

It was based on you using about 5-6 data points and decisions made by previous GMs(some of them close to a decade ago) to say that you have no confidence in Koby Altman and that you could do a better job then him.

If you have an argument to make about that, hoe about eliminating the past decisions of Chris Grant and David Griffin, and instead using the bad, good, and yet to be determined decisions, trades, signings, extensions, and picks actually made by Koby.

And if you do that, please include as many as possible rather than just a fillet point list of only the ones you consider bad.

In other words, I think Keys was just asking for a quality post that backed up the claim being made with actual points and counterpoints instead of using multiple decisions made by previous regimes to show why you have no faith in the current GM.
I think Keys could have been less cranky asking...I agree with Keys general stance, but we need to bring to new guys along to achieve the quality of post we all are looking for..

As for Sexton, I think people are pushing a trade or redefinition of his role because they are excited about the rookie guards.. In a way we made that mistake last year. Lots of guys were breathless about Garland..

Sexton has improved his game radically. He believes he is a top drawer guard and works his butt off to prove it. I think in the early part of the season he spends more of his floor time challenging himself, then in the latter part of the season becomes a better team mate..

But, in my opinion we should move to our next phase in building a competitive lineup. It will be a lot easier to trade Sex or Garland for another guard, than for a small forward.. we need to think about how we are going to fix the SF position, which is the giant bleeding lesion in the the team body.. unfortunately, the draft to do that was last year, not this year.

My argument is that our lineup is pretty good, except at the Wing, where the most prising player is Porter, and pretty much everyone else sucks bananas.. I like Cedi, but he has peaked ( and not in a starting wing kind of peak) and Windler is a great dice roll, but we are talking snake eyes for him to be a below average starter, much less a high quality player..

I am not a Ball fan, because I think he is more drama..and I am done with LeBron cycles.. but we need a real wing to take the next step..
 

Derek

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I think Keys could have been less cranky asking...I agree with Keys general stance, but we need to bring to new guys along to achieve the quality of post we all are looking for..

As for Sexton, I think people are pushing a trade or redefinition of his role because they are excited about the rookie guards.. In a way we made that mistake last year. Lots of guys were breathless about Garland..

Sexton has improved his game radically. He believes he is a top drawer guard and works his butt off to prove it. I think in the early part of the season he spends more of his floor time challenging himself, then in the latter part of the season becomes a better team mate..

But, in my opinion we should move to our next phase in building a competitive lineup. It will be a lot easier to trade Sex or Garland for another guard, than for a small forward.. we need to think about how we are going to fix the SF position, which is the giant bleeding lesion in the the team body.. unfortunately, the draft to do that was last year, not this year.

My argument is that our lineup is pretty good, except at the Wing, where the most prising player is Porter, and pretty much everyone else sucks bananas.. I like Cedi, but he has peaked ( and not in a starting wing kind of peak) and Windler is a great dice roll, but we are talking snake eyes for him to be a below average starter, much less a high quality player..

I am not a Ball fan, because I think he is more drama..and I am done with LeBron cycles.. but we need a real wing to take the next step..
To be fair, this was FAR from @Randolphkeys first response on the subject. He previously showed patience and was not rewarded.

And as for @JJ_PR's point on Altman, his info is all wrong, but I share his concern. I think Altman has been a shitty GM.

As the league embraces long-switchy defenders on the perimeter and places an emphasis on 3 point shooting; we've gone the complete opposite direction. It all started with that dumpster fire of LeBron's final season here.
 

WorldFreeB

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I honestly have trust issues when it comes to our front office. They've had so many draft blunders it's not even funny. Giving Kevin Love 120m over 4 seasons doesn't help. Tristan over Kawhi, Waiters over Drummond. Rushing Bennett to the court when he was coming off a shoulder surgery certainly didn't help his development. Trading Wiggins for Love was questionable as well.

I know I'm gonna get flak for saying this, but I'd probably be a better gm than Altman. People saying we need to draft another point guard when we drafted Garland last year, that'd be a monumental mistake especially if Wiseman is available.

Garland had an assist percentage of 18.4. That isn't considerably better than Sexton. What's the excuse for that? They both played with the same teammates.

When you mention Sexton's poor 15.1 assist percentage this season, you forget to mention that in his sophomore season he had to play next to a ball dominant, pass first pg that handled most of the playmaking duties. What would Sexton's assist percentage be had he been the primary facilitator seeing how he improved in every other category?
I like to read everything with an open mind but when i stumble upon a nugget like "Trading Wiggins for Love was questionable as well" then you completely lose me. We went to the finals four straight years with Kevin Love and if Durant doesn't sign with the Warriors we win 2 or 3 instead of 1. Lebron wanted that deal which was the final incentive for him to come back. Wiggins while talented seems unmotivated and only last year actually began to show more with the Warriors.
How in the world could anyone think that deal was questionable? You make that deal 10 out of 10 times.
 

Vipra

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How in the world could anyone think that deal was questionable? You make that deal 10 out of 10 times.
Absolutely!

I admit, though, when Wiggins scored 27 in his first game against the Cavs, I was skeptical. But as the time passed by, the trade seemed a big win for the Cavs.

If the coaching staff can bring everyone on the same boat, and we make a good draft pick (whoever that may be - I still have this order of preference: Avdija, Toppin, Wiseman, Vassell, Ball, Hayes), I am hopeful about the coming season!
 

JJ_PR

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To be fair, this was FAR from @Randolphkeys first response on the subject. He previously showed patience and was not rewarded.

And as for @JJ_PR's point on Altman, his info is all wrong, but I share his concern. I think Altman has been a shitty GM.

As the league embraces long-switchy defenders on the perimeter and places an emphasis on 3 point shooting; we've gone the complete opposite direction. It all started with that dumpster fire of LeBron's final season here.
Altman needs to make the right moves this offseason to make up for some of his bad decisions. Such as giving Love that horrible extention, or trading Kyrie for that particular package. Don't forget giving up a first for Larry Nance Jr. & facilitating LeBron to the Lakers by taking on Clarkson's bad contract. I believe drafting Garland was a bad move too.

As for the positives, drafting Sexton is a good start. I really like him as I've mentioned before. Getting a '22 first out of George Hill was a smart move. His best one yet was trading for Kevin Porter Jr. That was a nice find. J.B. Bickerstaff was a good hire & the rest of the coaching staff seems solid.

Since you mentioned long switchy defenders on the perimeter, do you think we can get Precious Achiuwa by trading back into the first round?
 
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Randolphkeys

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Just because I don't agree with the majority doesn't mean I'm trolling. If we want to build a championship team, it starts with ball movement & good defense. Our pg doesn't need to have great assist percentages to be effective.

Just my opinion of course. We have different views on the game of basketball. I respect your views, I suppose I expect the same.
I expect opinions to be accompanied with some type of accurate evidence, especially if you post as often as you do. Try to add the evidence, research on prospects you like and Cavs players are readily available. If "facts" are completely inaccurate, I expect a tough skin when other posters point out inaccuracies.

After a week of reading opinions with absolutely no support, it's time to rethink how you use the board. It's all very achievable and in line with what the board has expected for over 15 years. I am fully aware many websites do not have those standards. That is originally why we created RCF.
 

Sir'Dom Pointer

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With CP3 and Denis Schröder on his team, SGA has been a full-time shooting guard with the Thunder. I think he is becoming a special one, though. His shooting numbers are extremely efficient and he hides CP3's eroding defense really well.

I have my list buried in this thread, but I have a top five I believe the Cavs are looking to add. August 20th we can get into specifics about the draft board.
He is so smooth ah? He has improved his 3pt shot, and attempts more off the dribble 3pt attempts and makes as well which projects well for him.
I know you were high on him almost as much as myself. I'm still rooting for him on OKC as they are a really nice team to root for, but he would have been such an easy fit on whichever direction he would have liked to go to.

Shai has tremendous ceiling as even with his perceived slight frame, he plays with such force and isn't afraid to bang and attack at all.

Hopefully, I hope Sexton can become a great one, albeit different, even if he is not my preferred type in this modern age.
 

Randolphkeys

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He is so smooth ah? He has improved his 3pt shot, and attempts more off the dribble 3pt attempts and makes as well which projects well for him.
I know you were high on him almost as much as myself. I'm still rooting for him on OKC as they are a really nice team to root for, but he would have been such an easy fit on whichever direction he would have liked to go to.

Shai has tremendous ceiling as even with his perceived slight frame, he plays with such force and isn't afraid to bang and attack at all.

Hopefully, I hope Sexton can become a great one, albeit different, even if he is not my preferred type in this modern age.
I preferred SGA over Sexton during the draft, and if you follow advanced stats SGA has been the better player because of what he provides on the defensive side. His length is disruptive against guards and he is tough when he has to bump up marching up with a forward. Sexton has a better 3 point percentage now, and that is a credit to the work he put in, but I'd still take SGA in a redraft. Garland would have a much easier time with SGA as a second ball handler next to him.

I am interested in seeing a few young players who manipulated the draft to avoid the Cavs and their journeys. Jabari Parker was not thrilled with the Cavs during the 2014 draft, he is on team #6. SGA preferred Los Angeles, he got traded to one of the the smallest markets in the NBA. Lonzo Ball tried to manipulate the draft to get onto the Lakers, he is in another small market. It would be great if agents stopped using this approach. It worked for Kobe, but your client probably ain't no Kobe.
 

JJ_PR

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He is so smooth ah? He has improved his 3pt shot, and attempts more off the dribble 3pt attempts and makes as well which projects well for him.
I know you were high on him almost as much as myself. I'm still rooting for him on OKC as they are a really nice team to root for, but he would have been such an easy fit on whichever direction he would have liked to go to.

Shai has tremendous ceiling as even with his perceived slight frame, he plays with such force and isn't afraid to bang and attack at all.

Hopefully, I hope Sexton can become a great one, albeit different, even if he is not my preferred type in this modern age.
His jumpshot is still a work in progress. I'm not ready to jump into his bandwagon just yet.
 

Randolphkeys

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A jumpshot is a bonus for him, not a neccessity.
We are talking about a guy who is scoring 19 a game at over 47% from the field. Doesn't seem too problematic. If anything, he should look to find open teammates off the dribble more often.
 

Sir'Dom Pointer

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We are talking about a guy who is scoring 19 a game at over 47% from the field. Doesn't seem too problematic. If anything, he should look to find open teammates off the dribble more often.
While sharing the ball with a ball dominant PG in the name of Chris Paul.
 

JJ_PR

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Udoka Azubuike from Kansas is another guy I'd keep an eye on. His measurables & athletic profile are very similar to Wiseman. If he was a freshman, he'd go top 5 in this draft.

If we don't win the Wiseman sweepstakes, I'd trade down for Precious Achiuwa & target Azubuike in the second round. Him being older might be a good thing for us.
 

Sir'Dom Pointer

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Udoka Azubuike from Kansas is another guy I'd keep an eye on. His measurables & athletic profile are very similar to Wiseman. If he was a freshman, he'd go top 5 in this draft.

If we don't win the Wiseman sweepstakes, I'd trade down for Precious Achiuwa & target Azubuike in the second round. Him being older might be a good thing for us.
If he were a freshman?
He was a freshman, and he improved. He wouldn't be as good as a freshman, so I don't understand what you are trying to say.
Still, they are not really similar.
 
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