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2020 Offseason

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He's viewed as NBA Ready and a "safe" pick. You know what you are going to get with Toppin. A score first player who sucks on defense. I really hope they pick literally anyone else before Toppin. Okay not Lamelo Ball. But anyone besides Lamelo or Toppin and I'll be able to find something to like about the player we pick.


To me,Windler has more upside than Toppin and he's two years older than Obi.

If,this team draft Toppin,all that playoff talk is dead. I picked this team to atleast compete for the 8th seed.

Unless,you're going to tell me this team will be around 14-16 in defensive rating with Toppin. I'll come in here and apologize to Toppin because drafting him makes no sense at all.
 
He's viewed as NBA Ready and a "safe" pick. You know what you are going to get with Toppin. A score first player who sucks on defense. I really hope they pick literally anyone else before Toppin. Okay not Lamelo Ball. But anyone besides Lamelo or Toppin and I'll be able to find something to like about the player we pick.

I never understand why a bad team would ever want a "safe" pick high in the draft. To make a big jump, you need to find guys that exceed expectations. Looking for high floors does you nothing if you don't get a high ceiling with it. That is probably why I like Euros. The uncertainty can create opportunity.
 
It's weird that alot of mock drafts have the Cavs drafting Toppin despite needing a wing...

Even,Fedor have the Cavs drafting Toppin in his mock draft today.

The Cavs don't even need Toppin. They already have Love and Nance at PF, two good options. I don't understand where Toppin's minutes would even come from.
 
The Cavs don't even need Toppin. They already have Love and Nance at PF, two good options. I don't understand where Toppin's minutes would even come from.
Some teams apparently think he can play the 5, which they believe would help mask his defensive deficiencies. I just can’t see the Cavs picking another guy that struggles so much on that end of the floor.

Okongwu is a poor mans Bam Adebayo and he’s 3 years younger than Toppin. If the Cavs want a frontcourt player, he’s who they should pick.
 
Okongwu is a poor mans Bam Adebayo and he’s 3 years younger than Toppin. If the Cavs want a frontcourt player, he’s who they should pick.
I agree, but here's what I got out of Fedor's lastest podcast (for those who don't have an hour to listen).

- the Cavs are uncertain about Drummond's fit with the young core they're building. They've talked to him about an extension but Drummond's idea of his value is way more than what the Cavs have in mind. A lot of teams will have huge cap space after this season and after the "big, big names" have signed there will still be teams who missed out with money to spend and Drummond expects to be well paid.

- Drummond could be traded at the deadline when teams get "desparate". For example, a Western Conference team that feels they need to get bigger to compete with the Lakers could be looking for a player like Drummond and be willing to give up a decent asset if the Cavs are willing to take on a contract that extends beyond next year. The team would have to see Drummond as the "missing piece" to a potential championship season.

- Regarding Fedor's mock draft, he considers the 4th and 5th picks as almost interchangeable. IOW, it's Deni Avdija and Obi Toppin. Whichever the Bulls take at #4 the Cavs will take the other one. He has the Bulls taking Avdija.

- Folks around the league are saying Toppin is in play for the Cavs despite his defensive issues. This is an unusual draft in that all the top players have huge red flags. Ball had a horrible interview and teams are questioning his professionalism, plus he only played in Australia. Wiseman only played three games in college. Edwards played on an awful team - if he's a #1 pick why was Georgia so bad? Teams are looking for character and Toppin has it along with a great work ethic and maturity. He's a "safe" pick. He's also the best offensive player in the draft with a modern "inside-outside" game. He's a stretch 4 or 5 with "crazy bounce" and athleticism. He can protect the rim and has the outside shot to be an effective pick-and-pop player, which opens up the floor and fits with what the Cavs want to do. It will be hard for the Cavs to justify taking him when they've been the worst defensive team in the league the last two years, but they've said they'll take the best player and Toppin could be the best at #5. The question is his lateral quickness and perimeter defense.

- There's a chance Toppin could go to the Warriors at #2 because they want help now with Curry and Thompson coming back. Toppin can help an NBA team immediately. There's a possibility Wiseman could fall to #5 but it's unlikely. If that happens the Cavs would sprint to turn in his card.

- The Cavs have only two or three "plus" defenders and you need good individual defenders to have a good defense. Scheming can only take you so far. But the Cavs feel JBB can "maximize" players and "get more out of guys".

- This might be a good year for teams to trade up into the top five since most of the players have red flags and teams would be willing to take less to trade out. This is the weakest draft since 2013.

- Boston has three first round picks but only one open roster spot. They can't take on three rookies. They could make a play for Wiseman. However, their highest pick is #14 and the other two are at the bottom of the round.

- Phoenix is in a win now mode and could look to move up from #10. A trade of the #10 and Kelly Oubre for #2 makes sense.
 
I agree, but here's what I got out of Fedor's lastest podcast (for those who don't have an hour to listen).

- the Cavs are uncertain about Drummond's fit with the young core they're building. They've talked to him about an extension but Drummond's idea of his value is way more than what the Cavs have in mind. A lot of teams will have huge cap space after this season and after the "big, big names" have signed there will still be teams who missed out with money to spend and Drummond expects to be well paid.

- Drummond could be traded at the deadline when teams get "desparate". For example, a Western Conference team that feels they need to get bigger to compete with the Lakers could be looking for a player like Drummond and be willing to give up a decent asset if the Cavs are willing to take on a contract that extends beyond next year. The team would have to see Drummond as the "missing piece" to a potential championship season.

- Regarding Fedor's mock draft, he considers the 4th and 5th picks as almost interchangeable. IOW, it's Deni Avdija and Obi Toppin. Whichever the Bulls take at #4 the Cavs will take the other one. He has the Bulls taking Avdija.

- Folks around the league are saying Toppin is in play for the Cavs despite his defensive issues. This is an unusual draft in that all the top players have huge red flags. Ball had a horrible interview and teams are questioning his professionalism, plus he only played in Australia. Wiseman only played three games in college. Edwards played on an awful team - if he's a #1 pick why was Georgia so bad? Teams are looking for character and Toppin has it along with a great work ethic and maturity. He's a "safe" pick. He's also the best offensive player in the draft with a modern "inside-outside" game. He's a stretch 4 or 5 with "crazy bounce" and athleticism. He can protect the rim and has the outside shot to be an effective pick-and-pop player, which opens up the floor and fits with what the Cavs want to do. It will be hard for the Cavs to justify taking him when they've been the worst defensive team in the league the last two years, but they've said they'll take the best player and Toppin could be the best at #5. The question is his lateral quickness and perimeter defense.

- There's a chance Toppin could go to the Warriors at #2 because they want help now with Curry and Thompson coming back. Toppin can help an NBA team immediately. There's a possibility Wiseman could fall to #5 but it's unlikely. If that happens the Cavs would sprint to turn in his card.

- The Cavs have only two or three "plus" defenders and you need good individual defenders to have a good defense. Scheming can only take you so far. But the Cavs feel JBB can "maximize" players and "get more out of guys".

- This might be a good year for teams to trade up into the top five since most of the players have red flags and teams would be willing to take less to trade out. This is the weakest draft since 2013.

- Boston has three first round picks but only one open roster spot. They can't take on three rookies. They could make a play for Wiseman. However, their highest pick is #14 and the other two are at the bottom of the round.

- Phoenix is in a win now mode and could look to move up from #10. A trade of the #10 and Kelly Oubre for #2 makes sense.

Toppin is 22. Most of the guys considered near the top are 19. He should show more maturity. And if someone has great athleticism and work ethic then why do they suck on defense? Isn't that the foundation of good defense?
 
Said it months ago and I'll stand by it to this day.

I'm a fan of Toppin.. I think his defensive woe's are overblown and he has the athleticism to become a solid defender with the right level of coaching.

I think he's going to be really solid. Offensively his ceiling is very high in terms of slashing, 3 pt shot, etc. Pair that pick and pop with our young guards and we are very difficult to guard.

Love isn't going to be here for ever. He's going to be traded eventually, whether it's this season or next season (likely) is the only question.

Rip me, berate me, tell me how Okongwu is the next Bam blah blah blah... but I'm standing by Toppin. I think he's going to be very good and as many NBA draft expects are saying, he has the safest floor of anyone in this draft.
 
Toppin is 22. Most of the guys considered near the top are 19. He should show more maturity. And if someone has great athleticism and work ethic then why do they suck on defense? Isn't that the foundation of good defense?
Toppin has a weird build, almost like what you would see from a guy who works out only his upper body in the gym. He’s broad-shouldered, with almost no neck. He’s high-waisted, with skinny legs. He’s not a natural knee bender and he plays high, which is likely why he’s so bad on defense. Can he get better by improving his leg strength & flexibility? Possibly, but it’s a tougher projection than the guys who are 3 years younger.

So, the real question is whether his offense is that much better, than what the other prospects can become, to offset his obvious defensive limitations??
 
Toppin has a weird build, almost like what you would see from a guy who works out only his upper body in the gym. He’s broad-shouldered, with almost no neck. He’s high-waisted, with skinny legs. He’s not a natural knee bender and he plays high, which is likely why he’s so bad on defense. Can he get better by improving his leg strength & flexibility? Possibly, but it’s a tougher projection than the guys who are 3 years younger.

So, the real question is whether his offense is that much better, than what the other prospects can become, to offset his obvious defensive limitations??

Toppin is definitely build weird. I bet the first thing a NBA team will do is work on redistributing his weight. I don't think he necessarily needs to gain any weight but getting him to build up his lower body while leaning out his upper body should make him into more of a basketball body type. I think some of his lack of lateral quickness is the fact that he is so top heavy.
 
Toppin is definitely build weird. I bet the first thing a NBA team will do is work on redistributing his weight. I don't think he necessarily needs to gain any weight but getting him to build up his lower body while leaning out his upper body should make him into more of a basketball body type. I think some of his lack of lateral quickness is the fact that he is so top heavy.
I agree. It’s tough to play defense when you aren’t a natural knee bender and you play as upright as he does. I’ve seen enough highlights to know that he’s obviously not lacking explosion. What he appears to be lacking is lower body strength & flexibility.
 
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Why don't we stop messing around and just trade Drummond for Hayward straight up? It gives both teams exactly what they want. BOS gets a real C and CLE gets a real SF. Bring TT back and roll with Hayward/Love/TT/Nance/#5 Pick as our front court.

Sign a few vets and make a playoff push.
 
Why don't we stop messing around and just trade Drummond for Hayward straight up? It gives both teams exactly what they want. BOS gets a real C and CLE gets a real SF. Bring TT back and roll with Hayward/Love/TT/Nance/#5 Pick as our front court.

Sign a few vets and make a playoff push.
I like it but I think they wait until they see how the draft shakes out before making a trade like this. The question is whether Boston thinks Drummond does more to help them win than Hayward.

Also, I'm not convinced the Cavs need a SF more than a center. They really like Windler, they did great with Nance at the 3 last year, and KPJ can play the 3 when they want to go small. There's also the chance the BPA at #5 is a small forward.

If they traded Drummond for Hayward and then TT decided to sign elsewhere we'd be screwed unless Wiseman falls to us in the draft.
 

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