2021-2022 Cavaliers General Discussion: Trade Deadline Edition

[CavsKermit]

What about Kemba? He's a bit too undersized to play much alongside Garland -- but he's certainly got more left in the tank than Rondo.

Knicks apparently just want a future second - we could probably also get him for free via trade exception (though that would put us into the tax, so I don't think we would do that). He makes half as much as Levert and is a better defender.

Not an optimal choice - but if the price from the Pacers is 2 firsts (which is insane) - then Walker for nothing makes much more sense.

I'd take Schroder over him.

 

[CavsKermit]

Well, we’d be moving for him because we need a playmaking wing beyond all else.

Buddy Hield waiting on *checks notes* Brandon Goodwin to set him up for shots is what’s wrong with this team and is a waste of assets.

LeVert brings a lot of what we need. Bringing him in to be a spot-up shooter isn’t the goal. That said, I am optimistic that being paired with Garland on the court at times can get him quality shots and easy buckets. More likely, I am excited by the idea of Garland not having to work so hard to get all of his own shots.

If that's the thought process, I think people need to explain what they mean by playmaking. LeVert isn't some assist machine out of the SG spot. He's a guy who likes to dribble/drive and the problem with adding him to the Cavs is that Allen/Mobley are already occupying the space in which he prefers to operate. He's a very similar to Sexton except for the fact that he's taller, a marginally better defender, and a worse three point shooter. The only possible rationale for trading for him is that they have another deal lined up for Sexton because I can't see carrying two guys who's skills are that duplicative on this roster. I'm pretty skeptical that it will work out in the long run for either player here but having two of them would be a train wreck.

 

[bleedwineandgold03]

Sexton and 2 frp shiit pacers are smoking crack

 

[Cavatt]

Including Sexton in the deal. Yikes. I think he is the superior player easily.

 

[foucault87]

I wish there was a perfect wing player we could get who is young, a shooter, good playmaker, at least neutral on defense, can play on and offball, and is willing to take a backseat at times. If that player exists, he is likely outside our reasonable price range. We are going to be settling some of those things regardless of who we get, not to mention potential contractual hurdles.

EG is all of those things but young and a wing. If he was on a one year deal, this would be a no-brainer. Get EG to be our 3rd guard for this year and call it a wrap. But he has a long expensive contract and is not getting any younger.

Levert is young enough, a ball dominant playmaker, and maybe (?) willing to take a backseat. But his shooting is a bit of a question and his off-ball play isn't super great. Not to mention his up and down defensive performance. There are definite negatives, but I do think Caris comes close to meeting some of the above criteria. One bonus with him is that he is known to be a lunch pail guy and is already close friends with Jarrett Allen. Some relevant injury concerns here too, beyond the kidney issues last year.

In terms of some other dudes we have been linked to

• Harrison Barnes would be interesting as he is a neutral to plus defender, young enough, and can play offball. I worry that he isn't enough of a playmaker to create his own shot, let alone for others. He doesn't solve our dependence on Garland problem, but would be an excellent fit at 3/4 long term. I view Harrison as a move for next 3+ years and not this year.
• Alec Burks is basically a cheaper EG with a shorter deal. He is weaker as a playmaker and defender but about the same level as a shooter. I don't mind him as a stopgap, but if they ask for more than Rubio+2nd, I hang up. Dont want to give up major assets for a short rental.
• Luke Kennard is probably the best shooter of all these guys. He is a better playmaker than people give credit for but he won't be able to run an offense reliably. He is also somewhat of a defensive liability. On the plus side, he is young, went to the best school in NC, and is relatively affordable. Again think he has some of the same issues as Barnes in that we are still really dependent on Garland.
• Kemba is too old and has had too many recent injuries. Do not want.
• Dennis Schroeder would be a one year rental. I doubt we have to give up much, DPE and a 2nd maybe. Could work as a temp combo with the Kennard/Barnes moves but I am not a big fan of Dennis at all. He is a much worse version of what the pessimists think Collin Sexton is. He can playmake a bit, create inefficient shots, and is garbage on D. And he hasn't had a great locker room history...
• Luka Doncic is pretty young and a very good playmaker. Spotty on D and a mediocre shooter. I still really like his combination of size and playmaking though. I would be willing to give up a first here.
• Jerami Grant would actually hit all the criteria I listed above except the very last one. He is a versatile defender, turned himself into a decent shooter and playmaker, and can work on and offball. The problem is he wants shots like a number 1 option when his skillset is much better suited for a number 3 or 4 option. The fact that he left an ideal situation in Denver with Joker just spoonfeeding him buckets to go fill up empty nets with a tanking Detroit should tell you all you need to know about him.
• Gary Harris is a decent fallback if we can't swing Burks as a temporary rental. He is a pure 3nD guy and doesn't do much more. Again, doesn't address our playmaking problem but overall a nice player. I would give up Rubio+2nd max here. If we are trading with Orl, I would rather try to snipe one of their spare young guys (Hampton, Okeke?).
• Ben Simmons. Lol no.
• Brodric Thomas. He is just sitting there. We can easily get this guy. Elite playmaker, elite shooter, elite defender. Only thing missing is the elite height. Get off your hands Ferry.

In the end, I expect us to pick up someone no one has mentioned here that will end up looking like a steal. My early guess would be Nas Little.

 

[CavsKermit]

Including Sexton in the deal. Yikes. I think he is the superior player easily.

I think they're really close which is why I don't like the idea of paying Sexton $18-19M per. If the Cavs bail out of these discussions, the Pacers don't have the luxury of just moving on to the next team that wants him because it's not clear another team does want him on that contract - and he only has this season and next on that deal.

 

[Ohioplayer00]

I

Officially deadline week. Don’t expect the Cavs to make a big splash. Koby values his draft picks and future flexibility. Simmons? Nah. A young up and coming wing? I’d say unlikely. Who trades those guys? I don’t even think Levert is a guy Koby will give a 1st for. What do I expect? A cheap rental that can score points and handle the ball. I still think Eric Gordon makes the most sense. Perhaps a guy who needs to get paid but their team doesn’t want to pay. Like we did with JA and Markk.

There will be a lot of rumors. Almost all of them won’t amount to anything. My advice? Heads down, tune out the noise, don’t F5 RCF all week. You’ll hear when something happens.

When you need an up and coming wing and one’s available….YES YOU DO TRADE FOR HIM. Riddle me this, Batman…..our pick in the upcoming draft will be somewhere between 22-26. What are the chances that player will be the impact player that Lavert is right now? Would I give up ONE first rounder? Yes….that and Rubio. If they want Sexton then it’s a straight up trade (not sure if the salaries match up).
But in no trade scenario am I giving up two firsts and a player. They can also have the DPE, a couple a second rounders and Windler. If not Koby needs to politely say THANKS BUT NO THANKS!

 

[Cavatt]

I think they're really close which is why I don't like the idea of paying Sexton $18-19M per. If the Cavs bail out of these discussions, the Pacers don't have the luxury of just moving on to the next team that wants him because it's not clear another team does want him on that contract - and he only has this season and next on that deal.

2 guys who are the same and one is 23 and the other is 28 means the 23 year old is better.

Lavert has no upside. We can pretend Collin has no upside, but he hasn't totally figured out the game mentally and he is still raw in a few areas. HE has also improved every year of his career, so the idea he is finished project is not keeping with his track record.

Guys are generally done at 26.

18M would be great for Collin because that deal ages better with a rising cap than a guy making it right now.

 

[FrontPageNews]

I wish there was a perfect wing player we could get who is young, a shooter, good playmaker, at least neutral on defense, can play on and offball, and is willing to take a backseat at times. If that player exists, he is likely outside our reasonable price range. We are going to be settling some of those things regardless of who we get, not to mention potential contractual hurdles.

EG is all of those things but young and a wing. If he was on a one year deal, this would be a no-brainer. Get EG to be our 3rd guard for this year and call it a wrap. But he has a long expensive contract and is not getting any younger.

Levert is young enough, a ball dominant playmaker, and maybe (?) willing to take a backseat. But his shooting is a bit of a question and his off-ball play isn't super great. Not to mention his up and down defensive performance. There are definite negatives, but I do think Caris comes close to meeting some of the above criteria. One bonus with him is that he is known to be a lunch pail guy and is already close friends with Jarrett Allen. Some relevant injury concerns here too, beyond the kidney issues last year.

In terms of some other dudes we have been linked to

• Harrison Barnes would be interesting as he is a neutral to plus defender, young enough, and can play offball. I worry that he isn't enough of a playmaker to create his own shot, let alone for others. He doesn't solve our dependence on Garland problem, but would be an excellent fit at 3/4 long term. I view Harrison as a move for next 3+ years and not this year.
• Alec Burks is basically a cheaper EG with a shorter deal. He is weaker as a playmaker and defender but about the same level as a shooter. I don't mind him as a stopgap, but if they ask for more than Rubio+2nd, I hang up. Dont want to give up major assets for a short rental.
• Luke Kennard is probably the best shooter of all these guys. He is a better playmaker than people give credit for but he won't be able to run an offense reliably. He is also somewhat of a defensive liability. On the plus side, he is young, went to the best school in NC, and is relatively affordable. Again think he has some of the same issues as Barnes in that we are still really dependent on Garland.
• Kemba is too old and has had too many recent injuries. Do not want.
• Dennis Schroeder would be a one year rental. I doubt we have to give up much, DPE and a 2nd maybe. Could work as a temp combo with the Kennard/Barnes moves but I am not a big fan of Dennis at all. He is a much worse version of what the pessimists think Collin Sexton is. He can playmake a bit, create inefficient shots, and is garbage on D. And he hasn't had a great locker room history...
• Luka Doncic is pretty young and a very good playmaker. Spotty on D and a mediocre shooter. I still really like his combination of size and playmaking though. I would be willing to give up a first here.
• Jerami Grant would actually hit all the criteria I listed above except the very last one. He is a versatile defender, turned himself into a decent shooter and playmaker, and can work on and offball. The problem is he wants shots like a number 1 option when his skillset is much better suited for a number 3 or 4 option. The fact that he left an ideal situation in Denver with Joker just spoonfeeding him buckets to go fill up empty nets with a tanking Detroit should tell you all you need to know about him.
• Gary Harris is a decent fallback if we can't swing Burks as a temporary rental. He is a pure 3nD guy and doesn't do much more. Again, doesn't address our playmaking problem but overall a nice player. I would give up Rubio+2nd max here. If we are trading with Orl, I would rather try to snipe one of their spare young guys (Hampton, Okeke?).
• Ben Simmons. Lol no.
• Brodric Thomas. He is just sitting there. We can easily get this guy. Elite playmaker, elite shooter, elite defender. Only thing missing is the elite height. Get off your hands Ferry.

In the end, I expect us to pick up someone no one has mentioned here that will end up looking like a steal. My early guess would be Nas Little.

No way I give up a first for a fat boy like luka. Can’t trust him to stay in shape.

 

[foucault87]

I

When you need an up and coming wing and one’s available….YES YOU DO TRADE FOR HIM. Riddle me this, Batman…..our pick in the upcoming draft will be somewhere between 22-26. What are the chances that player will be the impact player that Lavert is right now? Would I give up ONE first rounder? Yes….that and Rubio. If they want Sexton then it’s a straight up trade (not sure if the salaries match up).
But in no trade scenario am I giving up two firsts and a player. They can also have the DPE, a couple a second rounders and Windler. If not Koby needs to politely say THANKS BUT NO THANKS!

Levert was up and coming like 3 years ago. He is 28. He is what he is. Not a bad player by any means, but Sexton has more value even as an impending RFA. If we give up Sexton, Indy better be sending us a pick back.

 

[Mr. Orange]

I

When you need an up and coming wing and one’s available….YES YOU DO TRADE FOR HIM. Riddle me this, Batman…..our pick in the upcoming draft will be somewhere between 22-26. What are the chances that player will be the impact player that Lavert is right now? Would I give up ONE first rounder? Yes….that and Rubio. If they want Sexton then it’s a straight up trade (not sure if the salaries match up).
But in no trade scenario am I giving up two firsts and a player. They can also have the DPE, a couple a second rounders and Windler. If not Koby needs to politely say THANKS BUT NO THANKS!

I think you misread the post. I’m saying those players usually aren’t traded. Though sometimes it happens like with Reddish.

 

[Surge]

Stop messing around and go get Kevin Durant and let's win this thing.

Brooklyn is 2-8 in their last 10 and there is unhappiness all over that place.

Durant winning a championship here would be the ultimate slap to LeBron's face too. You know KD is petty like that.

(I know it's not happening but my goodness would the league be in trouble.)

ETA: He also fits our 7 footer mandate.

 

[macbdog]

Stop messing around and go get Kevin Durant and let's win this thing.

Brooklyn is 2-8 in their last 10 and there is unhappiness all over that place.

Durant winning a championship here would be the ultimate slap to LeBron's face too. You know KD is petty like that.

(I know it's not happening but my goodness would the league be in trouble.)

Can I just say that I'm loving the NBA right now? The superteams all all eating themselves. The stars who 'stayed put' are doing well. I'm a Golden State away from beginning to love the league again.

 

[inliner311]

Sexton and 2 frp shiit pacers are smoking crack

I think the Pacers have lucked into alot in recent history. They might have a skewed view of what that can get, this might be the reality check for them.

They traded a broken Oladipo for LeVert. They basically got paid to take TJ Warren. Even when they trade Paul George, they got Oladipo who leveled up that no one could have expected and Sabonis has been better than expected. Even the Brogdon sign and trade is the result of the Bucks making the wrong choice between Brogdon and Bledsoe.

 

[CavsKermit]

2 guys who are the same and one is 23 and the other is 28 means the 23 year old is better.

Lavert has no upside. We can pretend Collin has no upside, but he hasn't totally figured out the game mentally and he is still raw in a few areas. HE has also improved every year of his career, so the idea he is finished project is not keeping with his track record.

Guys are generally done at 26.

18M would be great for Collin because that deal ages better with a rising cap than a guy making it right now.

LeVert will always be taller and I strongly suspect he'll always be the better defender (which is an admittedly low bar). A lot of people argued that LeVert still had more upside when he signed his deal at 24 (he's only 27). He did not. As far as Sexton, $18M per won't be *great* for him if he doesn't realize this immense growth his biggest fans project, it will be viewed as a bad contract.