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2021 Around MLB: Return of the Dead Ball Era

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Players are constantly improving and making adjustments. It's a constant cycle of pitchers and hitters adapting to one another in an attempt to gain an advantage. We happen to be in a part of the cycle where the pitchers have an advantage.

I believe, in time, the hitters will adjust and we'll see an upswing in offensive output. For that reason, I don't think a rule change is necessary. I'm more interested in how hitters will evolve to meet the challenge, and instituting a rule to aid them now will just prevent us from seeing as much growth.
The point Derek is that the shift has backed hitters into a corner. There's nothing left to do other than fill the lineup with power hitters. Yes, pitchers will make the occasional mistake and throw a pitch that will allow a hitter to go with the pitch away from the shift. The problem with that is that professional pitchers don't make that many mistakes and with the infrequency of being able to square a pitch up only lessens the chance. You've seen how many folks already bitching about hitters being unable to "go the other way". Can you imagine if they changed the ball to keep it in the park? Offense would reach a record low.

Too much of a good thing applies to the shift IMO. Strategically it makes all the sense in the world and is clearly effective, which is why it is used so frequently now. If you, or anyone else can explain to me how hitters can retort then I'm all ears. I think they're out of options and will be stuck with the focus on launch angles and HRS if something isn't done. That's not an Einstein moment on my part because that is obviously what's already happening.
 
The point Derek is that the shift has backed hitters into a corner. There's nothing left to do other than fill the lineup with power hitters. Yes, pitchers will make the occasional mistake and throw a pitch that will allow a hitter to go with the pitch away from the shift. The problem with that is that professional pitchers don't make that many mistakes and with the infrequency of being able to square a pitch up only lessens the chance. You've seen how many folks already bitching about hitters being unable to "go the other way". Can you imagine if they changed the ball to keep it in the park? Offense would reach a record low.

Too much of a good thing applies to the shift IMO. Strategically it makes all the sense in the world and is clearly effective, which is why it is used so frequently now. If you, or anyone else can explain to me how hitters can retort then I'm all ears. I think they're out of options and will be stuck with the focus on launch angles and HRS if something isn't done. That's not an Einstein moment on my part because that is obviously what's already happening.
Personally, I don't think there's anything that needs to be fixed.

As I said, the pitchers have an advantage now, but I do believe that eventually, the advantage will swing back to the hitters. Then, the pitchers will adjust. I know you don't believe that, but I do, and I'm not sure there's any way to prove either of us right.

I think it would be a shame if they limited or eliminated the shift. I really do.
 
Personally, I don't think there's anything that needs to be fixed.

As I said, the pitchers have an advantage now, but I do believe that eventually, the advantage will swing back to the hitters. Then, the pitchers will adjust. I know you don't believe that, but I do, and I'm not sure there's any way to prove either of us right.

I think it would be a shame if they limited or eliminated the shift. I really do.

In the 1960s, the pitchers had a big advantage which was ultimately reflected in the epic 1.12 ERA in 1968 by Bob Gibson. They fixed that by lowering the mound and shrinking the strike zone. This change will be much less radical.

By the way, watch some of those Sandy Koufax highlights from the mid-1960s with a strike zone up to the chest and you wonder how he ever gave up a run.
 
Personally, I don't think there's anything that needs to be fixed.

As I said, the pitchers have an advantage now, but I do believe that eventually, the advantage will swing back to the hitters. Then, the pitchers will adjust. I know you don't believe that, but I do, and I'm not sure there's any way to prove either of us right.

I think it would be a shame if they limited or eliminated the shift. I really do.
How do you think this happens?

Because I don't see a downside from the defensive standpoint. The most adjustment a hitter can make is showing the ability to beat the shift, forcing defenses back to a more neutral, spread-out alignment.
 
In the 1960s, the pitchers had a big advantage which was ultimately reflected in the epic 1.12 ERA in 1968 by Bob Gibson. They fixed that by lowering the mound and shrinking the strike zone. This change will be much less radical.

By the way, watch some of those Sandy Koufax highlights from the mid-1960s with a strike zone up to the chest and you wonder how he ever gave up a run.
I'm well-aware of all that. I don't agree that eliminating the shift would be less radical than lowering the mound though.
 
Personally, I don't think there's anything that needs to be fixed.

As I said, the pitchers have an advantage now, but I do believe that eventually, the advantage will swing back to the hitters. Then, the pitchers will adjust. I know you don't believe that, but I do, and I'm not sure there's any way to prove either of us right.

I think it would be a shame if they limited or eliminated the shift. I really do.
I'm not trying to determine who is right or wrong. I'm looking ahead while considering the current conditions. You suggest that the hitters will "adjust" and I'm asking you how that might happen? I'm asking you that because I think they're out of options under the current rules. What you currently see is the result of shifting. It can remain as it is, but we're going to continue to see more of the same.
 
How do you think this happens?

Because I don't see a downside from the defensive standpoint. The most adjustment a hitter can make is showing the ability to beat the shift, forcing defenses back to a more neutral, spread-out alignment.
I honestly just think hitters will get better at hitting off-speed pitches and breaking balls, which are typically the ones thrown on the outer half. We're already seeing young guys coming up with the ability to drive the ball to all fields like Acuna, Tatis, or even our own Franmil Reyes.

You'll see also more and more guys being able to perfect their launch angle without sacrificing the ability to make consistent contact like Mookie Betts, Alex Bregman, Anthony Rendon, Marcus Semien, Cody Bellinger, DJ LeMaheiu, Ketel Marte, Nolan Arenado, Rafael Devers, Jose Ramirez, Trea Turner, Francisco Lindor, Manny Machado...

I expect the number of players with the ability to do these types of things to continue to increase.
 
I’m as much of a traditionalist as there can be in baseball. But I think we have to be open to some significant and potentially even radical rule changes to address these major issues in order save and advance the game.
C'mon, now. The game has literally never been more popular worldwide. This "save the game" nonsense simply comes from Cleveland fans frustrated by two weeks of baseball in April. Good lord. Wake me up in August when pitchers are on fumes and we see offenses raking like crazy. What is wrong with us? We can't stand a couple of weeks of adversity and immediately wholesale changes to the basic game need to take place? The game has always been a long, drawn-out sport with balances that need to be carefully watched, but not overreacted to. I've always said that it wasn't just the lowering of the mound that changed things in 1969, but the huge expansion which brought many more mediocre arms into the sport. Trust me, by the end of this year, we're going to see MANY mediocre arms trying to get out hitters who have finally warmed up. Anyone who watched that 13-12 Twins-A's game or that absurd 9-8 Rays-Royals game or the 16 runs the Cubs hung on the Mets, all on the same day, should start to realize what the future holds for this season, and it ain't pitchers dominating the hitters.

I just laugh when people point to the NBA and NFL as brilliant "keepers of the sport" because their sport is allegedly so popular. First, there is a sameness to those sports now that has made them entirely uninteresting compared to their previous iterations, all in the hope of attracting the adenaline junkies who consume and move on looking for their next hit. The NBA has completely abandoned any semblance of mid range game; if it's not at the rim or a three, it's a worthless possession. The game is launch or dunk, possession after possession. THAT'S not boring? No one cares about regular season basketball. No one. But there's also no one fretting about the future of the sport, like shifts cause people to do in baseball.

As for the NFL, jeez, that sport is so flawed because of its main premise--knock the guy carrying the ball into next Tuesday--that they've had to legislate safety in to the game to such a degree that it is an over-officiated, QB-obsessed mess of a sport. It's flag football on steroids; you can't touch a wide receiver or hit anyone or even have kickoff returns! There's no running game to speak of, no halfbacks or fullbacks or flankers, just five wide, play after play after play. And do you think that sport has a future among American families who want to see their sons stay healthy?

And don't get me even started on soccer, a sport which can't even generate a box score worth looking at.

There's no rule that says baseball has to be popular. There's no rule that says the sport has to make gobs of money or have a multitude of eyeballs watching it. The only people who fret about things like that are MLB poobahs and fans with short attention spans. Go to the Mississippi State-Mississippi series like a good friend of mine did over the weekend, where the stands were completely packed, barbeque pits lined the outfield fence, and fans were loving baseball. No one was sitting there wringing their hands over freakin' shifts.

Listen, I get it, I understand why people today don't like watching pitchers hit. But it's only because we've told them for years that they shouldn't bother to learn. I'm so grateful I got to see complete players like Bob Gibson and Earl Wilson and Don Drysdale hit, to see pitchers who had an edge on their opponents because they could do something with the bat, even if was an expertise with small skills like laying down a bunt. It was a separator and kept the game from having a sameness to it. We knew that when you got to the bottom of the order, decisions needed to be made, and maybe defenses would have to be ready to do something a little different. OK, you don't like that, I get it, but I did. I don't moan and groan about it, I accept the way the game is today, but I'll miss not seeing a Bartolo Colon miracle once in awhile, or watch Triston McKenzie line a single to right when Jake Bauers can't. That's just me. But please don't tell me my version of boring is worse than yours.

Because, frankly, I reject the idea that baseball HAS to be broadly popular. That just means to me it needs to be a homogenized mess, full of rules changes to appease the masses who don't care about the sport in the first place. It's funny, the most exciting game of the year so far was Lucas Giolito vs Shane Bieber that had everyone talking about how stupid it was to end a glorious game like that with the with the silly 10th inning rule. We think we know what a game needs, but we don't really. And it sure as hell ISN'T what MLB thinks it needs, because baseball is NOT the major leagues, it's much, much bigger than that, and if you can't see what's going on in other countries with the sport and how it is catching on because it's a great game, I can't help you.
 
C'mon, now. The game has literally never been more popular worldwide. This "save the game" nonsense simply comes from Cleveland fans frustrated by two weeks of baseball in April. Good lord. Wake me up in August when pitchers are on fumes and we see offenses raking like crazy. What is wrong with us? We can't stand a couple of weeks of adversity and immediately wholesale changes to the basic game need to take place? The game has always been a long, drawn-out sport with balances that need to be carefully watched, but not overreacted to. I've always said that it wasn't just the lowering of the mound that changed things in 1969, but the huge expansion which brought many more mediocre arms into the sport. Trust me, by the end of this year, we're going to see MANY mediocre arms trying to get out hitters who have finally warmed up. Anyone who watched that 13-12 Twins-A's game or that absurd 9-8 Rays-Royals game or the 16 runs the Cubs hung on the Mets, all on the same day, should start to realize what the future holds for this season, and it ain't pitchers dominating the hitters.

I just laugh when people point to the NBA and NFL as brilliant "keepers of the sport" because their sport is allegedly so popular. First, there is a sameness to those sports now that has made them entirely uninteresting compared to their previous iterations, all in the hope of attracting the adenaline junkies who consume and move on looking for their next hit. The NBA has completely abandoned any semblance of mid range game; if it's not at the rim or a three, it's a worthless possession. The game is launch or dunk, possession after possession. THAT'S not boring? No one cares about regular season basketball. No one. But there's also no one fretting about the future of the sport, like shifts cause people to do in baseball.

As for the NFL, jeez, that sport is so flawed because of its main premise--knock the guy carrying the ball into next Tuesday--that they've had to legislate safety in to the game to such a degree that it is an over-officiated, QB-obsessed mess of a sport. It's flag football on steroids; you can't touch a wide receiver or hit anyone or even have kickoff returns! There's no running game to speak of, no halfbacks or fullbacks or flankers, just five wide, play after play after play. And do you think that sport has a future among American families who want to see their sons stay healthy?

And don't get me even started on soccer, a sport which can't even generate a box score worth looking at.

There's no rule that says baseball has to be popular. There's no rule that says the sport has to make gobs of money or have a multitude of eyeballs watching it. The only people who fret about things like that are MLB poobahs and fans with short attention spans. Go to the Mississippi State-Mississippi series like a good friend of mine did over the weekend, where the stands were completely packed, barbeque pits lined the outfield fence, and fans were loving baseball. No one was sitting there wringing their hands over freakin' shifts.

Listen, I get it, I understand why people today don't like watching pitchers hit. But it's only because we've told them for years that they shouldn't bother to learn. I'm so grateful I got to see complete players like Bob Gibson and Earl Wilson and Don Drysdale hit, to see pitchers who had an edge on their opponents because they could do something with the bat, even if was an expertise with small skills like laying down a bunt. It was a separator and kept the game from having a sameness to it. We knew that when you got to the bottom of the order, decisions needed to be made, and maybe defenses would have to be ready to do something a little different. OK, you don't like that, I get it, but I did. I don't moan and groan about it, I accept the way the game is today, but I'll miss not seeing a Bartolo Colon miracle once in awhile, or watch Triston McKenzie line a single to right when Jake Bauers can't. That's just me. But please don't tell me my version of boring is worse than yours.

Because, frankly, I reject the idea that baseball HAS to be broadly popular. That just means to me it needs to be a homogenized mess, full of rules changes to appease the masses who don't care about the sport in the first place. It's funny, the most exciting game of the year so far was Lucas Giolito vs Shane Bieber that had everyone talking about how stupid it was to end a glorious game like that with the with the silly 10th inning rule. We think we know what a game needs, but we don't really. And it sure as hell ISN'T what MLB thinks it needs, because baseball is NOT the major leagues, it's much, much bigger than that, and if you can't see what's going on in other countries with the sport and how it is catching on because it's a great game, I can't help you.
I don’t mean it personally, but that’s exactly the “get off my lawn” diatribe that I would expect from the old man generation of baseball fans.

In 1/1000th of the time it took me to read that I simple googled “MLB popularity decline” and came up with hundreds of articles.

Some interesting data:

Only 9 percent of people in the United States are listing baseball as their favorite sport. That’s the lowest number since Gallup started asking the question in 1937. (Soccer comes in at 7%, football at 37%)

Recent statistics show that ballpark attendance is down in 19 of 30 stadiums.

The average age of a baseball viewer is 57, up from 52 in 2006.

7% of baseball’s audience is below age 18.

Only 6% of people age 18-34 list baseball as their favorite.

Only 7% of people with children under 18 list baseball as their favorite sport.

14.4 percent of children participated in baseball on a regular basis in 2019, down from 16.5 percent in 2008.

All that data, and I haven’t even mentioned yet that the RSNs aren’t available on any streaming platforms and MLB.tv is blacked out in the local market.

Add it all up: young people don’t watch baseball, they don’t attend baseball games as much, therefore their kids aren’t watching baseball, and it’s leading to less kids playing baseball. It’s a dangerous downward trend for any business, even if we just want to shake our stick at it and talk about the good old days.


 
Personally, I don't care how popular the game is, and I'm not interested in appealing to the masses.

I enjoy it, and if others don't, that's their prerogative.

I'll understand if the MLB institutes changes to make themselves more money, but I'm not going to sit here and advocate for changes that I don't believe improves my experience as a fan.
 
Personally, I don't care how popular the game is, and I'm not interested in appealing to the masses.

I enjoy it, and if others don't, that's their prerogative.

I'll understand if the MLB institutes changes to make themselves more money, but I'm not going to sit here and advocate for changes that I don't believe improves my experience as a fan.
I respect that response. It makes total sense from a fan’s perspective. I honestly don’t feel that much different than you. But from a business perspective I think MLB has to try to attract younger audiences or they’re in big trouble, at least in the U.S. market.
 
I respect that response. It makes total sense from a fan’s perspective. I honestly don’t feel that much different than you. But from a business perspective I think MLB has to try to attract younger audiences or they’re in big trouble, at least in the U.S. market.
If I wanted more action and offense, I'd go watch a slow-pitch softball game :chuckle:
 
I respect that response. It makes total sense from a fan’s perspective. I honestly don’t feel that much different than you. But from a business perspective I think MLB has to try to attract younger audiences or they’re in big trouble, at least in the U.S. market.
I think they can do this without changing the way the game is played.

I'm sure we've discussed this ad nauseum in the past, but you know the shots of the NBA stars walking off the bus into the arena, sporting whatever clothes and equipment they want? We all know that shot. Well, when's the last time you saw that in baseball?

Mike Trout has a chance to be one of the all-time greats in the sport. Ask any casual sports fan who he is. It's entirely possible they don't know.

Baseball has a marketing problem, and the decades of neglect are going to take a long time to recover from. It isn't about quick fixes.

Bauer said a lot of these things well if I recall correctly. Blackouts, copyrighting replays, MLB is constantly shooting itself in the foot to prevent the game from growing and becoming more popular.
 
I don’t mean it personally, but that’s exactly the “get off my lawn” diatribe that I would expect from the old man generation of baseball fans.

In 1/1000th of the time it took me to read that I simple googled “MLB popularity decline” and came up with hundreds of articles.
And yet...Francisco Lindor gets $350 million. Yeah right...baseball's in SERIOUS trouble. Wake up. The only people in serious trouble are MLB poobahs who want to make even MORE money and concessionaires wondering how to make a $10 beer into a $12 beer. The game is healthy, notwithstanding all your statistics. What, the game is going to dry up and blow away? Have you ever been to a high school or college baseball game in the south or west? Or a game in Korea or Taiwan or Dominican Republic or Venezuela? Good grief, the game is great and it will survive no matter how much advertisers wring their hands over its age cohort. Because, we all grow old, and we all rediscover (or discover) what's good about the game.
 
If I wanted more action and offense, I'd go watch a slow-pitch softball game :chuckle:
If I wanted more action and offense I would address the changes that have brought about the lack thereof. Maybe you don't care how popular the game is, but the future of it is dependent upon how popular it is amongst our youth. You don't have to like that fact, but it is still a fact. It's not like anyone is suggesting changing the game. It's more removing what has come about to cause the issue in the first place.
 

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