2021 Draft Lottery

[inliner311]

I used to defend Koby's drafting, but I think I'm turning on him. Apparently he believes 1) Sexton cannot be a starting PG, and 2) Sexton is too small to be a starting SG. Taken together, that means Sexton cannot be a starter in the NBA.

So how is drafting a guy who cannot be an NBA starter at No. 8 a good move? And if the argument is "well, he could be an NBA starter with the right team around him", then you have to ask who built the current team. And that's the same guy.

I'm starting to suspect Koby is a guy who can read advanced stats spit out by a computer...and that's as far as it goes with him.

If you look at how Koby built the 2018 team when you widdle away everything, he really didn't do much. There were alot of transactions and changing players but ultimately they subtracted Kyrie, Shump, and Frye for Hill, Clarkson, Hood, and Nance. Clarkson and Hood were not factors in those playoffs and Shump was hurt. So the reality was they subtracted Kyrie and Frye to get Hill and Nance.

It's almost the same with how he keeps building the team now. It's alot of transactions and nothing to really show for it. Sexton has played with 52 players since he has been here. You would think we would at least have a couple vets that stuck.

His eye for talent within the league is bad. Our core 4 is made up of guys that have connections to Team USA. I don't have much faith that he will get it right beyond this phase of the rebuild.

 

[Man Called X]

If you look at how Koby built the 2018 team when you widdle away everything, he really didn't do much. There were alot of transactions and changing players but ultimately they subtracted Kyrie, Shump, and Frye for Hill, Clarkson, Hood, and Nance. Clarkson and Hood were not factors in those playoffs and Shump was hurt. So the reality was they subtracted Kyrie and Frye to get Hill and Nance.

It's almost the same with how he keeps building the team now. It's alot of transactions and nothing to really show for it. Sexton has played with 52 players since he has been here. You would think we would at least have a couple vets that stuck.

His eye for talent within the league is bad. Our core 4 is made up of that have connections to Team USA. I don't have much faith that he will get it right beyond this phase of the rebuild.

Ding ding ding.

The Cavs are a rudderless ship under Koby. He's got a good scouting department, but aside from that, the organization is trash.

A lot of shuffling cards to still end up with nothing to show. No direction, just purely winging it.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Jason Lloyd had this in The Athletic:

“The caliber of player who is at three makes it really difficult to have that [trade] discussion, although we will get those calls,” Altman said. “The level of talent at three, it’s the most valuable pick we’ve had in a very long time. … (Dan Gilbert) is super excited about this draft, just like we are. So it’s going to be a tough conversation for anybody to try to pry it away from us.”

One scout I spoke to earlier this season compared the 7-foot Mobley to Anthony Davis and thought he was a perfect fit for the Cavs. Mobley isn’t a wing, which remains the Cavs’ most glaring need, but he is a skilled big man who can guard multiple positions. He also can play in any lineup alongside Jarrett Allen, Kevin Love or Larry Nance Jr.

If Mobley goes to the Rockets, or if the Cavs pass on him, choosing between the Jalens gets a little complicated. Suggs, particularly, seems to be a bit of an overlap with Darius Garland and Collin Sexton. Theoretically, the Cavs could draft a Jalen and bring one of the three — Sexton, Garland or Jalen — off the bench. But choosing Suggs also could be an easy escape route to the inevitable extension talks that could get sticky between the Cavs and Sexton.

The Cavs could draft Suggs, or even Green, and try to trade Sexton for veteran help, particularly since Altman told me supplementing this young core with another veteran was a priority. The Cavs can extend Sexton this summer, or if they can’t come to terms on an agreement, they could allow him to enter restricted free agency after next year and retain the right to match any offer he’d receive.

We’re not at that point yet, although I’ve made clear where I stand. If an opportunity surfaced this summer, I’d move Sexton for a veteran and let another team sort out the contract.

 

[Ohioplayer00]

Ding ding ding.

The Cavs are a rudderless ship under Koby. He's got a good scouting department, but aside from that, the organization is trash.

A lot of shuffling cards to still end up with nothing to show. No direction, just purely winging it.

If you think Koby is the problem then so is the scouting department because a GM leans heavily on what information he gets from his scouts! And I said forever that the Cavs FO biggest weakness IS it’s scouting department.

 

[inliner311]

If you think Koby is the problem then so is the scouting department because a GM leans heavily on what information he gets from his scouts! And I said forever that the Cavs FO biggest weakness IS it’s scouting department.

I'm not sure the Cavs own scouting department is actually a strength. Fedor and Windy have talked about the connections that Koby has to USA basketball. I think he is getting good intel from them and it's helping to make his decisions.

The problem is that if Team USA is the reason why he has been so solid, it could fall apart quickly. His intel is coming from the u19, u18, u17, etc groups. That will be less and less useful for players outside the top 10, just because they don't interact with those guys. Within the league I got to think that intel is near useless, players have grown and develop beyond what they were in high school, there is huge amounts of game tape on them. It's just a completely different kind of scouting.

Sexton, Okoro, Garland, and Allen all have some connection to Team USA basketball. KPJ did too. They were all highly ranked prospects.

 

[Futuredome]

Colin simply isn't a PG and its ok to admit it people. His scoring would go down on a "good" team as well, further creating imbalances due to his poor D. Its why the Thunder if they had a shot at Mitchell or trading for Sexton, would go with Mitchell, because the man plays D at a far higher clip.

 

[weepinwillow]

If you look at how Koby built the 2018 team when you widdle away everything, he really didn't do much. There were alot of transactions and changing players but ultimately they subtracted Kyrie, Shump, and Frye for Hill, Clarkson, Hood, and Nance. Clarkson and Hood were not factors in those playoffs and Shump was hurt. So the reality was they subtracted Kyrie and Frye to get Hill and Nance.

It's almost the same with how he keeps building the team now. It's alot of transactions and nothing to really show for it. Sexton has played with 52 players since he has been here. You would think we would at least have a couple vets that stuck.

His eye for talent within the league is bad. Our core 4 is made up of guys that have connections to Team USA. I don't have much faith that he will get it right beyond this phase of the rebuild.

hmmm.. don't agree with this:
2017-18 Cavs had a huge "fit" issue that was glaring midseason. Thomas, Rose, Wade, Crowder were all expected to play big roles for them, but by midseason it was pretty clear none of them were going to help. Adding Hill, Hood, Nance, and Clarkson all helped define everyone's roles and expectations.
Yeah, there was a decent amount of bed-shitting in playoff moments, but is there any doubt that the IT/Rose/Wade group gets bounced by Boston in the first round? Too many competing agendas and egos to make that thing work. The second group went to the NBA Finals, and yes, LeBron was the main reason, but no way does it happen with the first group.
Also: Hill, Hood and Clarkson have all exceled in the roles they were brought in by Altman to perform on other playoff teams since the '18 Cavs team. One thing that Altman didn't gauge correctly was players ability to deal with the pressure that comes with playing next to LeBron. The mental make-up for that role shouldn't be discounted. Hood is a guy who I think really didn't have it, with Hill being a close second of the 3.

 

[inliner311]

hmmm.. don't agree with this:
2017-18 Cavs had a huge "fit" issue that was glaring midseason. Thomas, Rose, Wade, Crowder were all expected to play big roles for them, but by midseason it was pretty clear none of them were going to help. Adding Hill, Hood, Nance, and Clarkson all helped define everyone's roles and expectations.
Yeah, there was a decent amount of bed-shitting in playoff moments, but is there any doubt that the IT/Rose/Wade group gets bounced by Boston in the first round? Too many competing agendas and egos to make that thing work. The second group went to the NBA Finals, and yes, LeBron was the main reason, but no way does it happen with the first group.
Also: Hill, Hood and Clarkson have all exceled in the roles they were brought in by Altman to perform on other playoff teams since the '18 Cavs team. One thing that Altman didn't gauge correctly was players ability to deal with the pressure that comes with playing next to LeBron. The mental make-up for that role shouldn't be discounted. Hood is a guy who I think really didn't have it, with Hill being a close second of the 3.

There was a fit issue but at the end of the day when you look at how they got through the playoffs, Lue leaned heavily on the guys that were left than any of the new ones. Hill is basically the lone guy that got consistent high minutes because we didnt have any other options at the position.

Even if the moves were all Dan Gilbert moves in that summer, Koby was still the acting GM. He was definitely the GM when the season started and he basically kept the hole at backup PG open without even trying to fix it. Calderon was never going to be a playoff rotation player. Wade assume the role of backup PG even when we didn't have a starting PG. There was a ton of wasted time to build chemistry.

What I'm trying to point out that has become a theme of Koby's 4 years is alot of transactions with little to show for it. Sexton has played with 52 players over the last 3 years, yet very few have stuck around. We have one long term piece beyond our draft picks and we gave up a draft pick to get Allen.

 

[weepinwillow]

There was a fit issue but at the end of the day when you look at how they got through the playoffs, Lue leaned heavily on the guys that were left than any of the new ones. Hill is basically the lone guy that got consistent high minutes because we didnt have any other options at the position.

Even if the moves were all Dan Gilbert moves in that summer, Koby was still the acting GM. He was definitely the GM when the season started and he basically kept the hole at backup PG open without even trying to fix it. Calderon was never going to be a playoff rotation player. Wade assume the role of backup PG even when we didn't have a starting PG. There was a ton of wasted time to build chemistry.

What I'm trying to point out that has become a theme of Koby's 4 years is alot of transactions with little to show for it. Sexton has played with 52 players over the last 3 years, yet very few have stuck around. We have one long term piece beyond our draft picks and we gave up a draft pick to get Allen.

I don't want to get too into the weeds on the '18 team.. but Wade buying into (or really not buying into) his role really kind of nailed my thoughts on the opening night team vs the mid-season team. On paper, Dwayne Wade leading a bench group should really help stem the tide of the offense, allow you to rest a Lebron and Love for stretches without seeing a massive drop in production, but in reality it required a sacrifice of ego that Dwayne wasn't open to.
I know LeBron was perplexed that his teammates weren't all totally open to adding Wade that offseason, but they knew it was a chemistry issue that was coming their way. Especially after losing RJ.
Anyway, NBA rosters are a tightrope walk of talent, ego, agendas, fit and skills, the order and magnitude of it all sometimes not known until it's too late.
The transaction amount from Altman seems to speak more to the fact that we simply don't have a 1A building block player. We have a few guys who could compliment a 1A player depending on said players skill set so we are constantly looking for something else. Also: KPjr still hangs heavy over the roster. He made a ton of sense with Okoro, Garland and Allen.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Ding ding ding.

The Cavs are a rudderless ship under Koby. He's got a good scouting department, but aside from that, the organization is trash.

A lot of shuffling cards to still end up with nothing to show. No direction, just purely winging it.

I must have missed the deal on the table or available draft pick that Koby missed which cost us a superstar.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Ding ding ding.

The Cavs are a rudderless ship under Koby. He's got a good scouting department, but aside from that, the organization is trash.

A lot of shuffling cards to still end up with nothing to show. No direction, just purely winging it.

The front office embraces being the team facilitating other contenders to get important deals completed. In doing so, the front office has embraced a pre-2004 construction.

They believe in a true center always on the court and a small back court who can't easily switch in a hybrid-zone package. Our guards defend guards, and funnel drives into the rim protector. In addition, they embraced the idea that positionless small forward body types are just too expensive to sign and too volatile in success rate to draft. The benefit? Talent is available to the Cavs other teams can't shoehorn into their scheme.

They have a plan... I don't like the plan, but the plan exists.

 

[Funkmastabuck]

The front office embraces being the team facilitating other contenders to get important deals completed. In doing so, the front office has embraced a pre-2004 construction.

They believe in a true center always on the court and a small back court who can't easily switch in a hybrid-zone package. Our guards defend guards, and funnel drives into the rim protector. In addition, they embraced the idea that positionless small forward body types are just too expensive to sign and too volatile in success rate to draft. The benefit? Talent is available to the Cavs other teams can't shoehorn into their scheme.

They have a plan... I don't like the plan, but the plan exists.

I wonder if this draft and a potential trade of Sexton moves us away from building around 2 small guards. There was a quote recently about how the Cavs have studied other successful small guard models, but I look at the Blazers and think they have talent far beyond our smaller guards, and they still aren't a top 5 team in the NBA.

The Warriors famously had a bunch of 6'6'-6'11" wings on the court together, and that probably helped to cover some of Steph's defensive deficiencies. It's just hard to win with 2 guards under 6'3".

So sure, go ahead and play one height-limited guard and one somewhat true center, but please let the other 3 players have adequate height and length.

 

[Randolphkeys]

The Warriors famously had a bunch of 6'6'-6'11" wings on the court together, and that probably helped to cover some of Steph's defensive deficiencies. It's just hard to win with 2 guards under 6'3".

Full agreement.

The Warriors flirted with some pick and roll concepts when they had D'Angelo Russell starting with Curry. The plan didn't work because Russell is as bad defensively as Curry, and Curry/Draymond are at their best in a motion-based offense.

 

[Man Called X]

The front office embraces being the team facilitating other contenders to get important deals completed. In doing so, the front office has embraced a pre-2004 construction.

They believe in a true center always on the court and a small back court who can't easily switch in a hybrid-zone package. Our guards defend guards, and funnel drives into the rim protector. In addition, they embraced the idea that positionless small forward body types are just too expensive to sign and too volatile in success rate to draft. The benefit? Talent is available to the Cavs other teams can't shoehorn into their scheme.

They have a plan... I don't like the plan, but the plan exists.

They facilitated one blockbuster. One.

If the "plan" involves completely ignoring wings, then every single last member of the organization needs fired.

 

[inliner311]

I must have missed the deal on the table or available draft pick that Koby missed which cost us a superstar.

The talent that even Chris Grant could stumbled upon even if he couldn't resign them or eventually let them go is what worries me about Koby and his ability to get players from outside the top 8 in the draft.

Chris Grant had way more misses in the draft than hits. Kyrie was his only true hit and TT was nice but not at #4 in a draft that had so many good players. I don't think was a good talent evaluator at all.

Chris Grant was able to stumble upon Sessions, Wayne Eillington, Speights, Spencer Hawes, Livingston, CJ Miles, and Delly. He even had Seth Curry on the roster. Even Alonzo Gee was a solid rotation player for us for a couple years and Koby hasn't even been able to stumble on to that level of talent.

Building this team is going to have to come from avenues more than just the top 8 of the draft. I just don't think Koby has shown he is able to get talent from any of those other avenues.