2021 Draft Lottery

[Ozone]

Suggs is being discounted because people see him as a point guard and we have Garland. He can play off the ball too, as he did with Joel Ayayi at Gonzaga. It’s been said that Suggs has that ‘it factor’ that Russell Wilson & other great leaders have. If that’s true, we need to look hard at Suggs.

Mobley is #2 for me, behind Cunningham, but Green & Suggs are 3a & 3b. I’d honestly be happy with any of the 3 (Mobley, Green, or Suggs) as I think all will be very good NBA players.

Expecting Suggs to play off Garland is the equivalent of using Cedi as a PF. can he? sure. should he? hell no
If they trade Sexton Green is why.
If they don't trade Sexton or Garland, they are not going to pick Green or Suggs unless its for somebody else in a trade down. Not when sf or pf are the biggest needs for a team wanting to win and build a roster. Not when the separation between Green Suggs Kuminga and Barnes is minimal. I think adding more guards at this point,no matter how interesting they are seems kind of unreasonable without clearly emerging as the leader of the pack, which to this point is not really happening imo.

 

[dark2332]

Expecting Suggs to play off Garland is the equivalent of using Cedi as a PF. can he? sure. should he? hell no
If they trade Sexton Green is why.
If they don't trade Sexton or Garland, they are not going to pick Green or Suggs unless its for somebody else in a trade down. Not when sf or pf are the biggest needs for a team wanting to win and build a roster. Not when the separation between Green Suggs Kuminga and Barnes is minimal. I think adding more guards at this point,no matter how interesting they are seems kind of unreasonable without clearly emerging as the leader of the pack, which to this point is not really happening imo.

I don’t see this logic.

I’m not advocating for Suggs, but as a 6’4-6’5 guard with explosive athleticism who is sound defensively, he could absolutely play the two next to Garland.

And if you liken having more than one dude in the lineup with the ability to facilitate to Cedi playing the 4, I don’t know what to say to you.

Ideally, I want 5 guys who can facilitate on the floor. Not just 1. Whereas Cedi can’t even guard 3’s, let alone 4’s.

 

[inliner311]

I don’t see this logic.

I’m not advocating for Suggs, but as a 6’4-6’5 guard with explosive athleticism who is sound defensively, he could absolutely play the two bet to Garland.

And if you liken having more than one dude in the lineup with the ability to facilitate to Cedi playing the 4, I don’t know what to say to you.

Ideally, I want 5 guys who can facilitate on the floor. Not just 1. Whereas Cedi can’t even guard 3’s, let alone 4’s.

I think Suggs biggest strength is him being a floor general. You want the ball in his hands. He is 6'3 without shoes. He can play SG but I don't think it ideal for him and it's not ideal for Garland to play SG either. By pairing them together you limit their upside.

Suggs fits better with Sexton because Sexton has worked on playing off the ball. It also now gives us a vocal floor general at the PG position. I think Suggs is a upgrade over Garland but not a huge upgrade. I'm not really in favor of adding just to subtract someone else.

I don't think there really is an avenue to having Suggs, Garland, and Sexton long term. At least with Green, he could fill out and start to take more and more SF minutes. Suggs, Garland, and Sexton is basically lock into fighting for the 96 guard minutes long term.

 

[Ozone]

I don’t see this logic.

I’m not advocating for Suggs, but as a 6’4-6’5 guard with explosive athleticism who is sound defensively, he could absolutely play the two next to Garland.

And if you liken having more than one dude in the lineup with the ability to facilitate to Cedi playing the 4, I don’t know what to say to you.

Ideally, I want 5 guys who can facilitate on the floor. Not just 1. Whereas Cedi can’t even guard 3’s, let alone 4’s.

Like I suggested it is well known Suggs is absolutely a pass first floor general in every sense of the word, and taking him out of position, to play alongside a limited scorer like Garland is laughable. Garland gets demoted or dumped after a year of Suggs Garland pairing

 

[dark2332]

I think Suggs biggest strength is him being a floor general. You want the ball in his hands. He is 6'3 without shoes. He can play SG but I don't think it ideal for him and it's not ideal for Garland to play SG either. By pairing them together you limit their upside.

Suggs fits better with Sexton because Sexton has worked on playing off the ball. It also now gives us a vocal floor general at the PG position. I think Suggs is a upgrade over Garland but not a huge upgrade. I'm not really in favor of adding just to subtract someone else.

I don't think there really is an avenue to having Suggs, Garland, and Sexton long term. At least with Green, he could fill out and start to take more and more SF minutes. Suggs, Garland, and Sexton is basically lock into fighting for the 96 guard minutes long term.

I’m not advocating that we draft Suggs. I don’t want all three of these guards.

I was arguing against the premise that him being a playmaker is somehow bad at the two-guard position.

As for Garland being used off-ball, with his ability to shoot and his mind for the game, I really don’t see any problems for this to happen on occasion.

Neither Garland nor Sexton are particularly good defenders, so that’s not differentiating between the two of them.

If I’m the Cavs, and I draft a guard and feel the need to trade one of our current ones, I’m keeping the one that I believe in the most long-term. Period.

For me, that’s Darius Garland. I don’t say, “Well, golly, Suggs sure can make plays, and Collin can’t, so that’s a great pairing.” No, if all else is equal, give me both dudes who can facilitate and give me more options. The small guard who can’t is why we’re in this position in the first place.

 

[DCTribefan]

I’m not advocating that we draft Suggs. I don’t want all three of these guards.

I was arguing against the premise that him being a playmaker is somehow bad at the two-guard position.

As for Garland being used off-ball, with his ability to shoot and his mind for the game, I really don’t see any problems for this to happen on occasion.

Neither Garland nor Sexton are particularly good defenders, so that’s not differentiating between the two of them.

If I’m the Cavs, and I draft a guard and feel the need to trade one of our current ones, I’m keeping the one that I believe in the most long-term. Period.

For me, that’s Darius Garland. I don’t say, “Well, golly, Suggs sure can make plays, and Collin can’t, so that’s a great pairing.” No, if all else is equal, give me both dudes who can facilitate and give me more options. The small guard who can’t is why we’re in this position in the first place.

Fit matters as in playing as a unit, and is more important than maximizing options, IMO.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I think I'm in the minority here, but I still like Suggs just as much or even more than Green and Mobley.

Great vision and passing. Really coordinated athlete. Has received great coaching at Gonzaga. I think when we look back in 5 years, Suggs may be the All Star of the group.

Suggs was the best and most developed player I watched last college season. He's going to be a starting NBA point guard for the next decade plus. The reason he lands comfortably into the discussion is that he is a special perimeter defender at guard - who has a Marcus Smart/Jrue Holiday ceiling. With Green, you know you are getting a #1 option offensively but the question will be how quickly he develops as a defender.

Suggs is, however, not a great three point shooter yet. That is where his fit becomes a question, along with positional flexibility upside. I'd rather see Mobley develop as a shooter with his positional flexibility 2-5 defending.

Having the third overall pick is a lucky break. I was mentally preparing for taking the BPA at #6, so bottom line here is take a player you see becoming a success now and the future.

 

[Ozone]

I’m not advocating that we draft Suggs. I don’t want all three of these guards.

I was arguing against the premise that him being a playmaker is somehow bad at the two-guard position.

As for Garland being used off-ball, with his ability to shoot and his mind for the game, I really don’t see any problems for this to happen on occasion.

Neither Garland nor Sexton are particularly good defenders, so that’s not differentiating between the two of them.

If I’m the Cavs, and I draft a guard and feel the need to trade one of our current ones, I’m keeping the one that I believe in the most long-term. Period.

For me, that’s Darius Garland. I don’t say, “Well, golly, Suggs sure can make plays, and Collin can’t, so that’s a great pairing.” No, if all else is equal, give me both dudes who can facilitate and give me more options. The small guard who can’t is why we’re in this position in the first place.

Actually the small guard that can pass but cannot score for shit is the issue with this back court not the one who gets buckets at will even when double teamed. This fixation on Garland as the Cavs savior is lunacy

 

[dark2332]

Fit matters as in playing as a unit, and is more important than maximizing options, IMO.

Did we not already agree that having a 6’1 guard who isn’t much of a facilitator is what has lead to these hypothetical “fit” issues in the first place?

Now, people are actually trying to argue that Darius Garland’s ability to pass the rock makes him a tough fit for others?

What is happening here.

 

[dark2332]

Actually the small guard that can pass but cannot score for shit is the issue with this back court not the one who gets buckets at will even when double teamed. This fixation on Garland as the Cavs savior is lunacy

Did you just say Darius Garland “cannot score for shit?”

Dude, go home, you’re drunk.

 

[inliner311]

I’m not advocating that we draft Suggs. I don’t want all three of these guards.

I was arguing against the premise that him being a playmaker is somehow bad at the two-guard position.

As for Garland being used off-ball, with his ability to shoot and his mind for the game, I really don’t see any problems for this to happen on occasion.

Neither Garland nor Sexton are particularly good defenders, so that’s not differentiating between the two of them.

If I’m the Cavs, and I draft a guard and feel the need to trade one of our current ones, I’m keeping the one that I believe in the most long-term. Period.

For me, that’s Darius Garland. I don’t say, “Well, golly, Suggs sure can make plays, and Collin can’t, so that’s a great pairing.” No, if all else is equal, give me both dudes who can facilitate and give me more options. The small guard who can’t is why we’re in this position in the first place.

For me, Suggs would be the one who takes the PG spot because he is more vocal and I would say he has at least equal vision to Garland. I think Suggs is a real floor general and I think Garland is just too passive to lead the way Suggs can.

The Garland and Suggs pairing would end up with Garland playing off the ball a lot. We have already developed Sexton into that player. To now shift and see if can replicate that once again with Garland, I think would be a mistake.

The other part of it is that Sexton has already bought in being a SG. There is less risk in keeping him and rolling with that than having Garland make the switch. Garland could always decide he wants to be the PG and that opportunity isn't with the Cavs anymore.

 

[inliner311]

Did we not already agree that having a 6’1 guard who isn’t much of a facilitator is what has lead to these hypothetical “fit” issues in the first place?

Now, people are actually trying to argue that Darius Garland’s ability to pass the rock makes him a tough fit for others?

What is happening here.

The tough fit is Garland not being developed to this point to play off the ball. The other part of it is Garland could decide he doesn't like playing off the ball and decides that the Cavs aren't for him anymore if they don't view him as the PG of the team.

Suggs could also decide the same exact thing. The team is limiting him by not letting him be the PG of the team. The strengths of both Suggs and Garland are to be the PG of a team.

Sexton has already bought into being a SG. How much better can Garland or Suggs really be at SG than Sexton currently is. Suggs/Sexton vs Suggs/Garland is still a small backcourt and Suggs would take the best guard on defense regardless. It's about an offensive fit between the two.

 

[inliner311]

Fit matters as in playing as a unit, and is more important than maximizing options, IMO.

I think people forget how bad of a fit Kyrie and Dion were. We have been lucky with Garland and Sexton buying into their roles. The amount of keep away that was happening between Kyrie and Dion was crazy.

Sexton has bought into being a SG. I'm just not sure that Garland or Suggs would buy into playing a role that isn't best suited for them. Sexton bought into the role because it actually fit his best attributes. Garland and Suggs' best attributes make them PGs so it hard to see one truly buying into being a SG.

 

[foucault87]

The solution is obvious. We take Mobley and just put him at point guard.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I think people forget how bad of a fit Kyrie and Dion were. We have been lucky with Garland and Sexton buying into their roles. The amount of keep away that was happening between Kyrie and Dion was crazy.

Sexton has bought into being a SG. I'm just not sure that Garland or Suggs would buy into playing a role that isn't best suited for them. Sexton bought into the role because it actually fit his best attributes. Garland and Suggs' best attributes make them PGs so it hard to see one truly buying into being a SG.

Can't agree that Kyrie and Dion held each other back by both wanting to be point guard... I'd vote the exact opposite - they were both ball-dominant scorers who lacked the play initiation skills to be a point guard.

Basically, they are everything irritating about AAU basketball for me. Everyone else on the court is going to make the one guy look good. That one star will leave for another AAU superteam if you don't cater to his game. Well, at some point that star player needs to learn actual team basketball. Dion never did. Kyrie got his ass saved by LeBron returning to be an actual play initiator.