2021 Season | Series #47 | Royals @ Indians | Sep. 20-22

[Gson]

That Clev deal keeps looking better and better

...and leading up to the deal.. resistance.. disdain.. incredulity over any chance such a deal could happen..

After the deal (Mike Clevinger and Greg Allen, later Matt Waldron for Josh Naylor, Austin Hedges, young Cal Quantrill and minor leaguers Gabriel Arias, Joey Cantillo and Owen Miller) was announced.. the brain trusts of opinion makers couldn't help but refer to this as an Indians surrender.. This was referred as a capitulation by CLEFO to get rid of Mike Clevinger at any cost.. This kind of comment might be a bit on the "click bait" side of sensational... The best description (at the time) for the Indians side of the deal may be summed up as: "...the Indians, they’ll get a high-volume return — but one that does not contain any of the Padres’ top-ranked prospects..."

and the three year time period from when the deal was made to when it should be evaluated.. hasn't even arrived..

Thoughts?..

 

[CATS44]

Even if Clevinger hadn't gotten hurt and pitched well for San Diego, and even if all we get out of it in terms of production and MLB value is Quantrill and Hedges, its a very good deal for the Guardians.

If we get any significant production out of any one of the other three, or if we flip any of them for a significant upgrade, its a great deal for the Guardians.

Its probably the last major SP for a boatload of prospects trade we are gonna make for a while.

If we do trade a starting MLB pitcher in the near future, its gonna be for a different kind of return...significant immediate upgrades to our present MLB roster, some of which will be under control for multiple years.

Because of his contract situation...pre arby with four years of control...Plesac would bring approximately the same value in return.

So what would Quantrill, Arias, Cantillo and Miller have brought back last year in trade?

To put it into perspective, that four at the time of the trade would be roughly equivalent today to...

Morgan
Palacios
Carson Tucker
Allen, jr

Actually, it's a little light, because Quantrill was a concensus top 50 prospect, but we don't have an equivalent. To even it out, we'd probably have to swap out Tucker for Arias.

What would that package bring today?

It would bring us a pretty fair upgrade to our offense.

 

[CATS44]

...and leading up to the deal.. resistance.. disdain.. incredulity over any chance such a deal could happen..

After the deal (Mike Clevinger and Greg Allen, later Matt Waldron for Josh Naylor, Austin Hedges, young Cal Quantrill and minor leaguers Gabriel Arias, Joey Cantillo and Owen Miller) was announced.. the brain trusts of opinion makers couldn't help but refer to this as an Indians surrender.. This was referred as a capitulation by CLEFO to get rid of Mike Clevinger at any cost.. This kind of comment might be a bit on the "click bait" side of sensational... The best description (at the time) for the Indians side of the deal may be summed up as: "...the Indians, they’ll get a high-volume return — but one that does not contain any of the Padres’ top-ranked prospects..."

and the three year time period from when the deal was made to when it should be evaluated.. hasn't even arrived..

Thoughts?..

Absolutely correct, gson.

It was generally viewed as quality for mere quantity...the kind of trade that doesn't get made these days.

I thought a Clevinger trade was coming, and when whispers began that San Diego was on the prowl, a guy I wanted was Quantrill...and I hoped for a secondary pitcher. I knew about Miller, because we had dealt with SD before. But I didn't know anything about Arias, because I wasn't looking at MIFs, simply because we had so many of them already in the same general age bracket.

 

[sportscoach]

Even if Clevinger hadn't gotten hurt and pitched well for San Diego, and even if all we get out of it in terms of production and MLB value is Quantrill and Hedges, its a very good deal for the Guardians.

If we get any significant production out of any one of the other three, or if we flip any of them for a significant upgrade, its a great deal for the Guardians.

Its probably the last major SP for a boatload of prospects trade we are gonna make for a while.

If we do trade a starting MLB pitcher in the near future, its gonna be for a different kind of return...significant immediate upgrades to our present MLB roster, some of which will be under control for multiple years.

Because of his contract situation...pre arby with four years of control...Plesac would bring approximately the same value in return.

So what would Quantrill, Arias, Cantillo and Miller have brought back last year in trade?

To put it into perspective, that four at the time of the trade would be roughly equivalent today to...

Morgan
Palacios
Carson Tucker
Allen, jr

Actually, it's a little light, because Quantrill was a concensus top 50 prospect, but we don't have an equivalent. To even it out, we'd probably have to swap out Tucker for Arias.

What would that package bring today?

It would bring us a pretty fair upgrade to our offense.

To me, if you make a trade like we did and all the prospects in the deal make it to the pros, isn't that a good deal in the end?

 

[CDAV45]

...and leading up to the deal.. resistance.. disdain.. incredulity over any chance such a deal could happen..

After the deal (Mike Clevinger and Greg Allen, later Matt Waldron for Josh Naylor, Austin Hedges, young Cal Quantrill and minor leaguers Gabriel Arias, Joey Cantillo and Owen Miller) was announced.. the brain trusts of opinion makers couldn't help but refer to this as an Indians surrender.. This was referred as a capitulation by CLEFO to get rid of Mike Clevinger at any cost.. This kind of comment might be a bit on the "click bait" side of sensational... The best description (at the time) for the Indians side of the deal may be summed up as: "...the Indians, they’ll get a high-volume return — but one that does not contain any of the Padres’ top-ranked prospects..."

and the three year time period from when the deal was made to when it should be evaluated.. hasn't even arrived..

Thoughts?..

Here's a bit of irony for your entertainment. I recall loving the deal after it was made for a couple of reasons. One of them being that our OF was terrible and that Naylor would improve it even if only by default. Now I'd like to see Naylor traded TBH.

I also recall stating on the old board that it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Quantrill became as good or better than Clevinger.

I loved adding Arias' upside and thought he was probably one of, if not the main target of Antonetti in the deal.

I later came to love Miller's ability to hit and I still have confidence that he'll be a good MLB hitter.

Cantillo looks like he's going to be a major league SP of some sort.

Hedges is a good back up C, and a good replacement for Perez after he walks because he's not getting anywhere near $7M from Cleveland.

What a haul!

 

[Gson]

To me, if you make a trade like we did and all the prospects in the deal make it to the pros, isn't that a good deal in the end?

deleted

 

[CATS44]

To me, if you make a trade like we did and all the prospects in the deal make it to the pros, isn't that a good deal in the end?

Its a great deal, which was the point.

Its already a very good deal, if all we get is value from Quantrill and Hedges.

Its also a great deal if we upgrade the MLB team by flipping the others.

Lets say, just as an example, we trade Cantillo, Arias, and Miller for two years of Teoscar Hernandez.

In the end it would be Clevinger and Greg Allen for Quantrill, Hedges, and Hernandez.

(Hernandez is merely an example, so don't get on me for suggesting that trade as a possibility.)