2021 Series #9 | Indians @ White Sox | April 30 - May 2, 2021

[WhoAzcue]

Tito uses his horses frequently...always has.

Nobody complained when he road Shaw, Miller, and Allen to the WS.

The question isn't whether Stephan could have pitched today. Its what is the best use for him...an inning today, or prepared to go three on Tuesday behind Hentges?

My problem is we box ourselves in with the way we use guys. It appears verboten to use guys for more than an inning anymore. You say we used five relievers yesterday, which caused us to be short today, but why were Sandlin, Wittgren, and Nelson only used for one inning? Was that necessary? They threw 16, 10, and 13 pitches each. Now they can't be used today? I don't get the rationale. If these guys can't be trusted with a five run lead, yet we're going to trust them when Shaw, JK, or Clase are unavailable? And can they not be used on back to back games?

I'm just generally suspicious of Terry's rote use of the bullpen. And I don't regard 2016 as indicative of any ingenuity on the part of Francona. Just the reverse. His narrow circle of trust, his failure to develop a bullpen fully, and the fact that we were short starters caused him to use Miller the way he did.

Now we have a bullpen full of toys who are useful. I want to see Francona employ them without strict adherence to roles, i.e. leading in the 7th, I do this, leading in the 8th, I do this, trailing in the 8th I do this. Unfortunately, I again see us trending in that direction, regardless of circumstances.

And with a pen this deep, I don't want to shrug my shoulders blithely and say, "Terry uses his horses frequently...always has." Sorry, that's not good enough. Not with these arms. That does not comfort me one iota. On the contrary, it's cause for concern.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

Nobody ever said you were realistic about anything, so sure, go ahead, set those expectations high, we're all hopeful. But please, no complaining that the team stinks because they "fail" to play .750 ball on the road, okay?

Such an angry response to a facetious post...

 

[WhoAzcue]

Such an angry response to a facetious post...

You were caught in a crossfire where there's little room for facetiousness. State your wry intent more clearly, soldier!

 

[KilgoreTrout]

You were caught in a crossfire where there's little room for facetiousness. State your wry intent more clearly, soldier!

As you probably know, I do not expect 3 wins, but would be glad to have my expectations exceeded.

 

[Gson]

As you probably know, I do not expect 3 wins, but would be glad to have my expectations exceeded.

Agree with exceeding expectations as it relates to Indians wins.. especially on the road in KC..

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

My problem is we box ourselves in with the way we use guys. It appears verboten to use guys for more than an inning anymore. You say we used five relievers yesterday, which caused us to be short today, but why were Sandlin, Wittgren, and Nelson only used for one inning? Was that necessary? They threw 16, 10, and 13 pitches each. Now they can't be used today? I don't get the rationale. If these guys can't be trusted with a five run lead, yet we're going to trust them when Shaw, JK, or Clase are unavailable? And can they not be used on back to back games?

I'm just generally suspicious of Terry's rote use of the bullpen. And I don't regard 2016 as indicative of any ingenuity on the part of Francona. Just the reverse. His narrow circle of trust, his failure to develop a bullpen fully, and the fact that we were short starters caused him to use Miller the way he did.

Now we have a bullpen full of toys who are useful. I want to see Francona employ them without strict adherence to roles, i.e. leading in the 7th, I do this, leading in the 8th, I do this, trailing in the 8th I do this. Unfortunately, I again see us trending in that direction, regardless of circumstances.

And with a pen this deep, I don't want to shrug my shoulders blithely and say, "Terry uses his horses frequently...always has." Sorry, that's not good enough. Not with these arms. That does not comfort me one iota. On the contrary, it's cause for concern.

Yeah, I never understood why you wouldn't bring a pitcher back out for a second inning if he only threw 10-12 pitches in his first inning. Is there some kind of rule that says if a guy throws fewer than 15 pitches he's available the next day but if he goes over he's not?

I was shocked to see Clase coming in to pitch the 9th with a 5-run lead and their 6-8 batters coming up when we start a four-game series with KC today.

But I never understood why a guy can't pitch 162 games if he only throws one inning per game. I mean, you warm up, you throw 15 pitches give or take a couple, get 24 hours off, and do it again. OK, I'm exaggerating but I'm sure Trevor Bauer would agree and even offer to do it himself if they would let him.

 

[jup]

But I never understood why a guy can't pitch 162 games if he only throws one inning per game. I mean, you warm up, you throw 15 pitches give or take a couple, get 24 hours off, and do it again. OK, I'm exaggerating but I'm sure Trevor Bauer would agree and even offer to do it himself if they would let him.

Nope doesn't work that way in pitching.

Maybe if these guys went to the mound throwing 50 mph like us old guys, but they don't. They throw hard and that level of exertion isn't like us walking around day to day. It is more like running maximum effort sprints. Or maximum weight lifts. But all using the same muscle group only. Not like upper body one day lower the next.

You do max effort stuff daily with the same muscle groups and your body breaks down. Whether it is pitching or any other max effort physical exertion

 

[thestatman]

My problem is we box ourselves in with the way we use guys. It appears verboten to use guys for more than an inning anymore. You say we used five relievers yesterday, which caused us to be short today, but why were Sandlin, Wittgren, and Nelson only used for one inning? Was that necessary? They threw 16, 10, and 13 pitches each. Now they can't be used today? I don't get the rationale. If these guys can't be trusted with a five run lead, yet we're going to trust them when Shaw, JK, or Clase are unavailable? And can they not be used on back to back games?

I'm just generally suspicious of Terry's rote use of the bullpen. And I don't regard 2016 as indicative of any ingenuity on the part of Francona. Just the reverse. His narrow circle of trust, his failure to develop a bullpen fully, and the fact that we were short starters caused him to use Miller the way he did.

Now we have a bullpen full of toys who are useful. I want to see Francona employ them without strict adherence to roles, i.e. leading in the 7th, I do this, leading in the 8th, I do this, trailing in the 8th I do this. Unfortunately, I again see us trending in that direction, regardless of circumstances.

And with a pen this deep, I don't want to shrug my shoulders blithely and say, "Terry uses his horses frequently...always has." Sorry, that's not good enough. Not with these arms. That does not comfort me one iota. On the contrary, it's cause for concern.

I agree with a lot of what you say here, especially the part about using a reliever for more than one inning at a time. With that said, Tito will come to trust people like Sandlin and Nelsen a lot more as time goes on.

Yes. yesterday's 5 run lead did not warrant Karinchak or Classe. Especially with the first place Royals on deck.

 

[CATS44]

This is an area where I dont agree with Who and a lot of others.

I firmly agree with assigned roles in the bullpen.

I highly value the closing role, believing that the last three outs in a fairly close game are psychologically the toughest outs to get.

I believe in set up men, although I like the idea of a gunslinger to be used in whatever high leverage situation comes along.

I also believe in one inning specialists. I want them in that role and knowing its full go for three outs, holding nothing back for a possible second inning. I dont want them thinking in the middle of an inning, 'I wonder what Titos thinking.

These guys are trained for specific jobs in specific situations. I also don't like the idea of using a kid with the thought that he can blow up with a five run lead and it doesn't matter.

And lastly, when you have your foot on the throat of a division contender, dont give him any chance to get up.

**********

Onto an entirely different subject...

I dont know if anybody has noticed, what with all of the handwriting over anything and everything imaginable, but pretty darn good lately against top level pitching and true contenders.

In the last seven games vs Minnesota and Chicago...and a game with the Yankees...we have averaged 4.68 runs per game.

The starters in those games were Taillon, Berrios, Maeda, Happ, Keuchel, Lynn, and Giolito.

Over the last seven days, the favorite whipping boys have not been too shabby.

Amed....1.125 OPS
Naylor......868
Bauers...1.038

 

[Kiddo]

Disapointing couple of games from DJ, finally gets his chance and he looks awful.

 

[CATS44]

DJ swung twelve times yesterday, and had five fouls.

It wasn't pretty.

 

[Gson]

Nope doesn't work that way in pitching.

Maybe if these guys went to the mound throwing 50 mph like us old guys, but they don't. They throw hard and that level of exertion isn't like us walking around day to day. It is more like running maximum effort sprints. Or maximum weight lifts. But all using the same muscle group only. Not like upper body one day lower the next.

You do max effort stuff daily with the same muscle groups and your body breaks down. Whether it is pitching or any other max effort physical exertion

Lucien Laurin and Bob Feller would disagree with you..