2021 Spring Training Thread

[Kevalier]

There is one thing about this team that I am very worried about.

Its something that can't be measured, so most fans don't give a rats backside. But I believe in it strongly.

Veteran leadership, clubhouse presence, however you want to label it.

Outside of Bieber for the pitching staff, we have none.

No Matt Williams. No Jason Giambi. No Mike Napoli.

Guys who were looked up to, and even intimidated by. A teammate simply didn't screw up around those guys. The manager didn't have to say anything.

I read a story about Matt Williams first day of spring training with the Indians. While Albert Belle got most of the attention, Kenny Lofton was also a pain in the butt, and thought he ran the clubhouse.

Anyway, after workouts, Lofton entered the clubhouse and turned on the music...loud. The first thing Williams did was turn it off. Never said a word, but the message was sent.

If we had a Williams or Giambi or Napoli on this team, we wouldn't have anybody breaking Covid rules.

This team is too young to go successfully thru a 162 game season, unless somebody on the team steps up and takes charge in a positive way.

Frankly, the grizzled ol' vet in the clubhouse is pretty overrated in terms of importance, but I do expect Ben Gamel to make this team and serve that role to an extent.

 

[CDAV45]

I guess I assumed that between Ramirez, Hernandez, Rosario, Perez, and Bieber that any "leadership" concerns would be covered. It's not really a concern, but those 5 should give comfort to those that are worried about such BS. That's before mentioning Tito's presence in the clubhouse.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Any reason they didn't do anything about it?

His tipping issues were too complicated to fix on the fly during the season. It was as much of an issue with his mechanics as it was a tipping issue.

They tried to do some basic adjustments as a patchwork fix but it just hurt his stuff and his mechanics as a whole and was scrapped pretty quickly.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Also, for those complaining about not seeing people at certain positions.

You all are seeing all of like 5% of the reps guys are getting when they play 3 to 5 innings in a ST game...

 

[Alabuckeye]

Veteran leadership isn't nothing, even if it is overblown. I think it comes into play over the long season, when the team is tired, when a couple games are lost when maybe they shouldn't have been......The names already listed, Eddie, Perez, Shane.....Jose.....they should be able to fill that role....

 

[Criznit]

Also, for those complaining about not seeing people at certain positions.

You all are seeing all of like 5% of the reps guys are getting when they play 3 to 5 innings in a ST game...

I don't think people are complaining, just making observations.

 

[avs2000]

I guess I assumed that between Ramirez, Hernandez, Rosario, Perez, and Bieber that any "leadership" concerns would be covered. It's not really a concern, but those 5 should give comfort to those that are worried about such BS. That's before mentioning Tito's presence in the clubhouse.

And Sandy Alomar

 

[CATS44]

Frankly, the grizzled ol' vet in the clubhouse is pretty overrated in terms of importance, but I do expect Ben Gamel to make this team and serve that role to an extent.

This is where we strongly differ.

I have always been a true believer in the things that can't be measured...the intangibles. I've watched it up close and personal all of my life, mostly in football.

I've watched very good players do things that by almost all tangible measures are impossible. I've watched players in multiple sports...from a very young age to their late twenties that simply refuse to lose, and they refuse to allow their teams to lose...whether they were the best player on their teams or not.

Probably the best example I've known is Chris Spelman. Short, not weighing enough, no foot speed, no vertical leap. When you saw him on the Ohio State practice field with the other linebackers, he was the comic relief. He looked like the dorky waterboy. But when the whistle blew...

And beware the teammate who didn't refuse to lose.

Teaching...I never called it coaching...youth baseball for thirty years, I was fortunate to be associated with two teams that the refuse to lose mentality permeated the entire team. Both teams were two small and couldn't hit a lick. They did so well and became so confident, that we purposely put them in situations that they were severely over matched. Baseball is a game of failure, and if you never fail, you will never learn. Eventually, in tournaments for traveling teams, which we were not, both teams lost in the finals. Both teams never lost another game. They were absolute demons after those losses.

I digressed a lot, but to make a point. Intangibles do matter. In many cases they matter more than the tangible.

If you look at the stats for guys like Napoli and Giambi, you will think they had almost no value for the Indians. Combined over three seasons, they put up -.5 fWAR.

Anybody who paid attention to those teams know better.

On this team their appears to be no leadership among the position players. Maybe Berto, but he concentrates on the pitchers. Certainly not Jose. Openly breaking the rules is not leadership.

This incident is the most depressing of ST so far.

 

[CATS44]

I don't think people are complaining, just making observations.

Actually I am complaining...lol.

Its a lot more than 5%.

Compared to a normal spring training schedule, we are playing four less games. (Less at bats available) Few of them are going a full nine innings. (Less at bats available) Many innings are being called for pitch counts. (Wise, but it means less ar bats available)

B games and intrasquads have been virtually eliminated. (Less at bats available)

Overall, the number of at bats have been severely diminished.

On top of that this team has much more competition for roster spots than usual. Previously, we generally knew who was gonna play C, 1B, 2B, SS, and 3B. The outfield, though lousy, was generally known.

This year, only four positions are set. There is much more competition throughout the roster.

The competition at 1B has been arbitrarily limited to Bradley and Bauers. Its right now one of them or bust.

The competition in CF has been arbitrarily limited to Mercado, Hamilton, and Zimmer.

Both those competitions should make fans either shudder or puke.

Chang has been arbitrarily limited to util inf, excepting 1B. Naylor, with reverse splits, is stuck in RF in competition with Johnson.

ARosa is not getting a look in the OF, which makes no sense, if Gimenez is the soon to be SS.

Now, lets look at how the competitions could look.

1B...Bradley, Bauers, Naylor, Chang (RH)

CF...Mercado, Hamilton, Zimmer, ARosa, Johnson.

Which competition would you prefer?

And who would you rather see getting the at bats, the competitors or the org fillers who are very unlikely to ever see Cleveland?

 

[Andrew Scheid]

Also, for those complaining about not seeing people at certain positions.

You all are seeing all of like 5% of the reps guys are getting when they play 3 to 5 innings in a ST game...

Do you have any intel on Amed Rosario's reps in CF?

 

[LL3]

Bradley misses a couple shots at catching fire.. Zimmer is playing his way back into CF/4th OFer consideration. Marabel is now a 1B.

Have you seen Zimmer in the field...or read any reports in that regard? He seemed like a mess defensively (bad routes, no jumps, reluctant) in the 60 game mini-season, so I am hoping he returns to some reasonable form.

 

[CDAV45]

This is where we strongly differ.

I have always been a true believer in the things that can't be measured...the intangibles. I've watched it up close and personal all of my life, mostly in football.

I've watched very good players do things that by almost all tangible measures are impossible. I've watched players in multiple sports...from a very young age to their late twenties that simply refuse to lose, and they refuse to allow their teams to lose...whether they were the best player on their teams or not.

Probably the best example I've known is Chris Spelman. Short, not weighing enough, no foot speed, no vertical leap. When you saw him on the Ohio State practice field with the other linebackers, he was the comic relief. He looked like the dorky waterboy. But when the whistle blew...

And beware the teammate who didn't refuse to lose.

Teaching...I never called it coaching...youth baseball for thirty years, I was fortunate to be associated with two teams that the refuse to lose mentality permeated the entire team. Both teams were two small and couldn't hit a lick. They did so well and became so confident, that we purposely put them in situations that they were severely over matched. Baseball is a game of failure, and if you never fail, you will never learn. Eventually, in tournaments for traveling teams, which we were not, both teams lost in the finals. Both teams never lost another game. They were absolute demons after those losses.

I digressed a lot, but to make a point. Intangibles do matter. In many cases they matter more than the tangible.

If you look at the stats for guys like Napoli and Giambi, you will think they had almost no value for the Indians. Combined over three seasons, they put up -.5 fWAR.

Anybody who paid attention to those teams know better.

On this team their appears to be no leadership among the position players. Maybe Berto, but he concentrates on the pitchers. Certainly not Jose. Openly breaking the rules is not leadership.

This incident is the most depressing of ST so far.

How do you know that those teams with Napoli(who actually was productive) and Giambi wouldn't have been better with more productive players? Talent and performance is what wins CATS and it's that simple. There is plenty of "leadership" on this team, and if it is not successful it won't be for the lack of it. It will be because they either didn't hit enough, pitch well enough, or field good enough. Injuries should be added in there as well. Lack of "intangibles" is not. You can claim it is all you want, but in the end you can't quantify it or teach it, and to think there are no "leaders" on this team is pure malarkey and nothing short of it.

As Cleveland fans, we should be more concerned with someone stepping up and being productive at 1B, CF, and RF. That and hoping our pitching staff stays healthy. Like I said before, this team is one potent bat away from winning the division IMO. Maybe someone like Bradley and/or Johnson step up and put us over the top. If they don't then all the "intangibles" in the world won't do shit to help this team win the division.

 

[LL3]

Things I do not understand...

With 1B looking like a nothingburger, and the refusal to play Naylor there, why isn't Chang (a natural infielder, for cripes sake) getting a look there? He isn't gonna play second, third, or short on this team.

With so many players needing to be evaluated by the end of the month, why are fillers like Marabell and Kreiger taking at bats away from the others?

If Gimenez is looked at as the starting SS, either to start the season or by May, and CF such a question mark, why isn't ARosa getting work out there?

Are some of the guys you mention getting reps at those positions in practices, B games, etc? I do not know, but that would seem logical to me in the early going. If not....?

 

[Criznit]

Have you seen Zimmer in the field...or read any reports in that regard? He seemed like a mess defensively (bad routes, no jumps, reluctant) in the 60 game mini-season, so I am hoping he returns to some reasonable form.

It sounded like he made at least one if not 2 fairly nice plays yesterday.

 

[Gson]

Consideration..... entering the first full week of spring training in march...

..look for the aches and pains of camp start up becoming more onerously defined strains and other more serious soft tissue injuries.. this is the time.. How the club and players get through the next seven days.. will be critical to the composition of the roster..

Thoughts?..