2022 Minor League Thread

[sportscoach]

Naylor is still developing, and the idea that he could still develop in the majors is ruined by the reality he would be mostly sitting on the bench.

I'd rather him start in the minors than sit in the majors.

Depending on the OGon situation, he may be getting some IL time, and Jones could be someone they call up.

Speaking of OGon, some posters have pointed to players that started off hot, then cooled off. OGon is seemingly getting a free pass for some reason.

Well OGonz is now on the IL, but we haven't gotten to see his adjustment back yet.

Kwan murdered first month, got murdered in the second month, but has come back strong. Gonzalez has only had the one month. It's about how he adjusts back once he is healthy that will make or break him at the end of the day. Bradley tore up the first part, but couldn't adjust back, so we have to give a player the time to adjust back before we judge them one way or the other.

 

[sportscoach]

I don’t see any Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Brial Giles, Ritchie Sexton, Sean Casey, caliber hitters in this system.

I will say this, it is a different era so you have to take that into factor...

We couldn't produce very much position wise when we went straight athlete with upside, so we have been drafting and acquiring plus hit tool guys and it's honestly working. No we don't have the power but we have a good mix of heavy contact hitters or High OPS guys. Now we just need someone to protect the JRam in the lineup. Reyes and Straw are having horrible year hitting, but if you look at our AAA lineup, almost all the starters will see big league time in some capacity. That in itself says we have done a good job...

 

[DickyLeftridge]

Truth be told, Maile and Hedges handle the staff really well and Naylor doesn't know all of these guys yet. On paper, I think you are right, but moving him to the bigs now, plus trying to learn all the pitchers, plus keep his bat going, I don't want to do. Let's wait until the offseason when he gets to be around them plus Alomar as well...

Now if there is an injury, I am not against bringing him up at all, but outside of that, we should let him develop a little more.

This is bogus. At some point the pitching staff should be able to stand on its own. You shouldn't need an automatic out as a battery mate that spots the other team an entire inning in the batters box each game. Wouldn't matter if I caught Clase. Wouldn't matter if I caught BieGOAT in 2020. So let's quantify it. Your position is that Hedges and Maile "handle the staff really well." Ok, great. So we should add half a run ERA to each of our starting rotation, because that's what they'd really be doing if stuck with even a league average catcher? That what you're saying? Just half a run? Maybe a full run ERA for all of our guys? Ok, just some? Which ones. The reason I know this talking point is bogus is because you won't quantify. It's just hot air.

Perhaps the issue is that our pitching staff isn't as good as we'd like to think it is. That, and the issue I addressed earlier of always wanting to let a guy "develop a little bit more" are the only explanations. Between Lavastida and Naylor, someone should be given a shot. It's untenable at the Catching and CF spots.

 

[daddywags]

I wouldn't rush Naylor. He's too special to rush through his development. He has a real chance to be our primary catcher for 6-7 years. If he needs another half season in AAA so be it.

 

[sportscoach]

This is bogus. At some point the pitching staff should be able to stand on its own. You shouldn't need an automatic out as a battery mate that spots the other team an entire inning in the batters box each game. Wouldn't matter if I caught Clase. Wouldn't matter if I caught BieGOAT in 2020. So let's quantify it. Your position is that Hedges and Maile "handle the staff really well." Ok, great. So we should add half a run ERA to each of our starting rotation, because that's what they'd really be doing if stuck with even a league average catcher? That what you're saying? Just half a run? Maybe a full run ERA for all of our guys? Ok, just some? Which ones. The reason I know this talking point is bogus is because you won't quantify. It's just hot air.

Perhaps the issue is that our pitching staff isn't as good as we'd like to think it is. That, and the issue I addressed earlier of always wanting to let a guy "develop a little bit more" are the only explanations. Between Lavastida and Naylor, someone should be given a shot. It's untenable at the Catching and CF spots.

Have you played catcher? If you have then you know the relationship between pitcher and catcher is huge. The reason why we went and got Leon and not promoted Naylor was the fact Leon knows these guys better. In a sense you are saying the FO is completely wrong for trading for Leon when they did exactly what you said is hot air...

 

[Criznit]

I wouldn't rush Naylor. He's too special to rush through his development. He has a real chance to be our primary catcher for 6-7 years. If he needs another half season in AAA so be it.

I really think the call has to be to bring up Lavastida when he is healthy and give him a shot to sink or swim. Leon gets DFA and hopefully lands in Cbus, but ultimately Maile gets the ax. DFA/Trade IDK. Lavastida is definitely a trade chip in his own right.

Let Naylor keep getting starting reps in AAA, agree he's not done baking.

 

[DickyLeftridge]

Have you played catcher? If you have then you know the relationship between pitcher and catcher is huge. The reason why we went and got Leon and not promoted Naylor was the fact Leon knows these guys better. In a sense you are saying the FO is completely wrong for trading for Leon when they did exactly what you said is hot air...

I notice you didn't answer the question, even after I predicted that you would not answer the question. I'm prescient if nothing else.

So are you adding a half run ERA to each of our starters or a full run? Thanks.

 

[Mcreek]

I'd take Valera over Giles and we already have Josh Naylor who I would take over Casey. Sexton was a big power, swing and miss hitter. You don't think we have any of those?

Valera a left handed Manny Ramirez, and now Valera over a Guy (Giles) with a career OBA of 400 and a mind boggling walk to strike out ratio of:1183/835?? A lot of hyperbole today

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

Valera a left handed Manny Ramirez, and now Valera over a Guy (Giles) with a career OBA of 400 and a mind boggling walk to strike out ratio of:1183/835?? A lot of hyperbole today

I don't understand your point. You originally were saying there were no type of prospects like former prospects in the 90's system. Now you are comparing them to their major league career?

 

[Mcreek]

I don't understand your point. You originally were saying there were no type of prospects like former prospects in the 90's system. Now you are comparing them to their major league career?

My question is how you take a guy like Valera over Brian Giles? By what metrics? Giles always had great place discipline similar to his ML career. Giles could also play all three outfield positions. The other is comparing Valera to Manny Ramirez? I don’t follow this stuff like I did years ago but I don’t recall anyone suggesting the two are comparable

 

[CDAV45]

My question is how you take a guy like Valera over Brian Giles? By what metrics? Giles always had great place discipline similar to his ML career. Giles could also play all three outfield positions. The other is comparing Valera to Manny Ramirez? I don’t follow this stuff like I did years ago but I don’t recall anyone suggesting the two are comparable

You're failing to take all things into consideration. For one, pitching is far more advanced and has a bigger advantage than in Giles time. Secondly, the ball isn't flying out like it used to for a few reasons. Lastly, PED's are heavily patrolled these days and Giles was certainly suspect when it came to using them, as were many others.

Manny and Thome are HOFers so I'm not comparing anyone to them. Regardless, you're twisting my point or disregarding it all together. I plainly stated that this farm system is better due to the pitching prospects yet you somehow don't want to discuss any of that so I'm done with this conversation.

 

[sportscoach]

I notice you didn't answer the question, even after I predicted that you would not answer the question. I'm prescient if nothing else.

So are you adding a half run ERA to each of our starters or a full run? Thanks.

Do you believe that a less efficient pitching staff is smarter than maybe having a better hitting catcher?

And I don't know how much you would add until you put him out there, but if the FO thought it would be better with him in Cleveland over Hedges/Maile combo then he would definitely be up and he isnt. So on paper it will definitely be a half a run or higher for the ERA in the sense of answering your question. Personally I think Naylor will struggle to hit and will produce less hitting and defense than Hedges/Maile combo this season since he isnt 100% ready for the bigs...

 

[DickyLeftridge]

Do you believe that a less efficient pitching staff is smarter than maybe having a better hitting catcher?

And I don't know how much you would add until you put him out there, but if the FO thought it would be better with him in Cleveland over Hedges/Maile combo then he would definitely be up and he isnt. So on paper it will definitely be a half a run or higher for the ERA in the sense of answering your question. Personally I think Naylor will struggle to hit and will produce less hitting and defense than Hedges/Maile combo this season since he isnt 100% ready for the bigs...

It's criminal that we are wasting ABs on Sandy Leon. If you're in a position where you have to start Kirk McCarty, you should have every bat you can in that lineup. I'm supposed to believe Sandy Leon is the difference between McCarty having a 10 ERA and a 30 ERA? You'll lose in either scenario. As to the regular rotation, I think they are good enough to be tested by taking the Designated Fielder training wheels off.

I get it that your stance is that whatever the org does, you'll cosign. I think we have a HOF manager, and the best FO in the game. But I do not think they are infallible. They don't need someone carrying their water over their poor decisions. In fact, it actually cheapens their greatness. Go fire up the excuse machine for the Pirates FO. The Guardians don't need it.

 

[sportscoach]

It's criminal that we are wasting ABs on Sandy Leon. If you're in a position where you have to start Kirk McCarty, you should have every bat you can in that lineup. I'm supposed to believe Sandy Leon is the difference between McCarty having a 10 ERA and a 30 ERA? You'll lose in either scenario. As to the regular rotation, I think they are good enough to be tested by taking the Designated Fielder training wheels off.

I get it that your stance is that whatever the org does, you'll cosign. I think we have a HOF manager, and the best FO in the game. But I do not think they are infallible. They don't need someone carrying their water over their poor decisions. In fact, it actually cheapens their greatness. Go fire up the excuse machine for the Pirates FO. The Guardians don't need it.

Dude, Naylor would have been up if he was considered ready and they didn't deem it so. Trust me I understand no one is perfect and you cannot 100% trust anything, but it was too soon to have up Lavastida let alone Naylor. Both guys have things they need to work on so right now, we have to deal with the old guys and if you don't like it, then so be it. We have to give them the benefit of the doubt on when Naylor comes up. We still want to win games and they feel they can win more with the defensive catchers so I have to go with that one. If this was OOTP or MLB the Show, I am going with Naylor 100% of the time, but games cannot duplicate intangibles. You are ignoring those intangibles completely right now...

 

[DickyLeftridge]

This is venturing beyond the topic of this thread, but I did not say that we had to call up Naylor. We could have signed a stop-gap passable bat who can Catch. But we didn't do so, instead deciding that having now THREE veteran, designated Fielders was the way to go. This decision has been exacerbated by the designated Fielder we now also play every day in CF--who, by the way, we gave a 5 year deal to despite literally no track record justifying such confidence.

Put bats in the lineup. It's way past time that the org stops getting a pass on this conscious, consistent decision to punt as many as 2-3 spots in the lineup because the only way the strength of this team--the rotation--can succeed is if we give them 2-3 different sets of training wheels.

Put bats in the lineup. And as I type this, Sandy Leon strikes out with the bases loaded. Sad how those "muh, muh, muh INTANGIBLES" seem to be consistently outweighed by the tangible flaws these players bring to the plate every third inning.