2023-24 Regular Season Thread II: March Toward Destiny

[Futuredome]

Not happening. Mitchell is gone. This is Mitchell's team. Mitchell turned it down after the Raptors blowout and we have not looked good since. He turns it back up, this team will look gold. If he has moved on. Then the era ends quickly.

Garland needs to be gone last trade deadline for a wing and one of Mobley and Allen need to be gone, it’s that simple. All three awesome players but the fit is horrendous

 

[CavsKermit]

Yeah, it was kind of a perfect storm that coincided exactly with the Garland and Mobley injuries. We did play some bad teams, some good teams missing key players, and some teams on back-to-backs.

But it's also true that Mitchell is a better point guard than Garland, Okoro is a better defender, and Wade is a better 3-point shooter than Mobley and his defense is right there. That starting lineup we used was kicking ass; the numbers leave no question about that. The skill sets of that group of players mesh together nicely and Mitchell took it on himself to play the best basketball of his career with Garland and Mobley out.

Now they're trying to run the same offense with Garland and Mobley replacing Okoro and Wade. But we still see Garland dribbling down the clock, reverting to his previous tendencies. And Mobley still can't make a bucket more than three feet from the rim.

In crunch time JBB may have to go back to the Mitchell/Strus/Okoro/Wade/Allen lineup if the Garland/Mobley lineup doesn't figure it out over the next 23 games.

People are forgetting what Mitchell looks like running the offense with a really good defender on him or against a good defensive team (mostly because we haven't seen it in a while). He gets sped up, and against good rim protection, it's ugly.

Also, Thibs once again left Okoro and Wade completely undefended from 3 last night, even without Mitchell on the floor, and it paid big dividends in the second half for the Knicks. So while there may be generic statistical support for starting Wade and Okoro, it's definitely not going to solve for what we saw last night.

Merrill's good game masked the fact that our other role players missed a lot of open 3s. The Knicks role players converted several 911 three point attempts late in the shot clock, and when they didn't, managed to secure long rebounds off of bad misses.

 

[CavsKermit]

If you're looking for something to pull from last night in terms of adjustments, 6'4" Josh Hart had 18 defensive rebounds. Maybe get a body on him.

 

[MattyIce8]

The coach’s record after the All Star Break since he’s been our coach is pathetic

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

If you're looking for something to pull from last night in terms of adjustments, 6'4" Josh Hart had 18 defensive rebounds. Maybe get a body on him.

"Effort,” Bickerstaff said on what it came down to in the rebound battle. [It’s] that simple...“[They] set the tone with the first play. They get an offensive rebound on the first possession. So we’ve got to be better and understand how important it is to us.”

“You’ve got to stand your ground at some point,” Bickerstaff said after the Knicks scored 42 points on the interior. “And that’s what I think in those quarters, we didn’t do a good enough job. I just watched us backpedal as we were guarding guys one-on-one and allowing them to get to the paint.”

“Sometimes it does come down to strength,” Bickerstaff said.

Not enough effort, not standing your ground, not being strong enough. Once again the Cavs let the Knicks push them around.

 

[shoes22]

The ominous thread title makes even more sense after last night's game. @wuck

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Fedor didn't cut them any slack.

And even this iteration of the Knicks — missing quite possibly their four most important players — was too much. They were tougher — again. They were more physical — again. They played with more effort — again. They wanted it more — again.

Isaac Okoro didn't make any excuses.

Lackluster. Some games we have energy and some games we don’t.

JBB agreed.

We played in spurts. We can’t pick and choose when we’re going to be at our best.

You'd think this would be a game where the Cavs would "choose" to bring their best effort. After all, it was against the Knicks, the team that humiliated them in the playoffs last year. The season series was tied 1-1 so this game was the tiebreaker. And when Brunson went down in addition to Robinson, Randle, and Anunoby, the opportunity for a big win was right in front of them. But once again they wilted.

Jimmy Watkins of cleveland.com let them have it.

And when [Josh] Hart sunk a step-back 3-pointer with 1:36 remaining and pretended to steal Mitchell’s gold necklace afterward — “Ooooh, that’s nice,” Hart reportedly said of the jewelry — he sent a concerning message that should bother every Cavs player/coach and worry every Cleveland fan:

I own this team.

Consider Hart’s audacious celebration a reminder that New York harbors no fear — and perhaps not much more respect — for their former playoff adversaries...

But with New York missing four starters -- arguably its top four players -- after Brunson’s injury, Cleveland needed to take charge. It needed to beat the Knicks, if not beat them badly. The fact that they didn’t, even without Mitchell, highlights the same concerns they have been trying to assuage since New York sounded their alarms last spring.

But the Knicks have already proven they can bully Cleveland out of the postseason with both teams at full strength. So when they do it again without Brunson -- or Robinson, or Randle, or Anunoby -- only emboldens the bully’s bite. Don’t panic yet, but the Knicks just punked Cleveland with its lightest roster of the season. Hart just mocked the Cavs’ superstar while facing zero push back ...

New York owns the Cavs. Or at least, it thinks it does.

 

[MattyIce8]

Team is getting laughed at (again) nationally for the Josh Hart viral video.

A team with any sort of spine will use that as motivation for the rest of the year, but I thought the same thing after the Mitchell Robinson playoff video with him literally laughing at us.

 

[Smooth]

Fedor isn’t wrong, and it’s quite the indictment on this team currently..

Any respect they feel like they deserve is on hold until they consistently prove they deserve it..

 

[shoes22]

Fedor didn't cut them any slack.

And even this iteration of the Knicks — missing quite possibly their four most important players — was too much. They were tougher — again. They were more physical — again. They played with more effort — again. They wanted it more — again.

Isaac Okoro didn't make any excuses.

Lackluster. Some games we have energy and some games we don’t.

JBB agreed.

We played in spurts. We can’t pick and choose when we’re going to be at our best.

You'd think this would be a game where the Cavs would "choose" to bring their best effort. After all, it was against the Knicks, the team that humiliated them in the playoffs last year. The season series was tied 1-1 so this game was the tiebreaker. And when Brunson went down in addition to Robinson, Randle, and Anunoby, the opportunity for a big win was right in front of them. But once again they wilted.

Jimmy Watkins of cleveland.com let them have it.

And when [Josh] Hart sunk a step-back 3-pointer with 1:36 remaining and pretended to steal Mitchell’s gold necklace afterward — “Ooooh, that’s nice,” Hart reportedly said of the jewelry — he sent a concerning message that should bother every Cavs player/coach and worry every Cleveland fan:

I own this team.

Consider Hart’s audacious celebration a reminder that New York harbors no fear — and perhaps not much more respect — for their former playoff adversaries...

But with New York missing four starters -- arguably its top four players -- after Brunson’s injury, Cleveland needed to take charge. It needed to beat the Knicks, if not beat them badly. The fact that they didn’t, even without Mitchell, highlights the same concerns they have been trying to assuage since New York sounded their alarms last spring.

But the Knicks have already proven they can bully Cleveland out of the postseason with both teams at full strength. So when they do it again without Brunson -- or Robinson, or Randle, or Anunoby -- only emboldens the bully’s bite. Don’t panic yet, but the Knicks just punked Cleveland with its lightest roster of the season. Hart just mocked the Cavs’ superstar while facing zero push back ...

New York owns the Cavs. Or at least, it thinks it does.

Jimmy Watkins wrote this, not Fedor.

 

[Pierre Pan]

Fedor didn't cut them any slack.

And even this iteration of the Knicks — missing quite possibly their four most important players — was too much. They were tougher — again. They were more physical — again. They played with more effort — again. They wanted it more — again.

Isaac Okoro didn't make any excuses.

Lackluster. Some games we have energy and some games we don’t.

JBB agreed.

We played in spurts. We can’t pick and choose when we’re going to be at our best.

You'd think this would be a game where the Cavs would "choose" to bring their best effort. After all, it was against the Knicks, the team that humiliated them in the playoffs last year. The season series was tied 1-1 so this game was the tiebreaker. And when Brunson went down in addition to Robinson, Randle, and Anunoby, the opportunity for a big win was right in front of them. But once again they wilted.

Jimmy Watkins of cleveland.com let them have it.

And when [Josh] Hart sunk a step-back 3-pointer with 1:36 remaining and pretended to steal Mitchell’s gold necklace afterward — “Ooooh, that’s nice,” Hart reportedly said of the jewelry — he sent a concerning message that should bother every Cavs player/coach and worry every Cleveland fan:

I own this team.

Consider Hart’s audacious celebration a reminder that New York harbors no fear — and perhaps not much more respect — for their former playoff adversaries...

But with New York missing four starters -- arguably its top four players -- after Brunson’s injury, Cleveland needed to take charge. It needed to beat the Knicks, if not beat them badly. The fact that they didn’t, even without Mitchell, highlights the same concerns they have been trying to assuage since New York sounded their alarms last spring.

But the Knicks have already proven they can bully Cleveland out of the postseason with both teams at full strength. So when they do it again without Brunson -- or Robinson, or Randle, or Anunoby -- only emboldens the bully’s bite. Don’t panic yet, but the Knicks just punked Cleveland with its lightest roster of the season. Hart just mocked the Cavs’ superstar while facing zero push back ...

New York owns the Cavs. Or at least, it thinks it does.

Both Watkins and Fedor echoed what we’ve been saying; any and all criticism is more than fair at this point. Last night was the nadir of a season with plenty of positives; but for it to come against an injury ravaged squad and the Knicks in particular is extremely frustrating; and for the Cavs to squander away all that hard work when we had significant injuries is such a shame; especially with losses coming against the Sixers (2x), Knicks, Bulls and Magic most recently

 

[CavsKermit]

"Effort,” Bickerstaff said on what it came down to in the rebound battle. [It’s] that simple...“[They] set the tone with the first play. They get an offensive rebound on the first possession. So we’ve got to be better and understand how important it is to us.”

“You’ve got to stand your ground at some point,” Bickerstaff said after the Knicks scored 42 points on the interior. “And that’s what I think in those quarters, we didn’t do a good enough job. I just watched us backpedal as we were guarding guys one-on-one and allowing them to get to the paint.”

“Sometimes it does come down to strength,” Bickerstaff said.

Not enough effort, not standing your ground, not being strong enough. Once again the Cavs let the Knicks push them around.

JBB concerns me when that's his answer following every disappointing loss. The reality is that one Knick killed us on the boards last night and no in-game adjustment occurred. Wade, Niang, Strus, and at least in the second half, Okoro couldn't buy a bucket from 3. It wasn't because the shots were contested or off-balance either.

At any point did we consider telling guys to follow their shots? Especially Niang who is little to no help in transition defense anyway?

If you're betting that wide-open looks will drop, just say that, but we failed to score 100 points against the Knicks, again, and while I give JBB more slack than most, Thibs owns him in terms of in-game adjustments.

 

[Cement]

Fedor didn't cut them any slack.

And even this iteration of the Knicks — missing quite possibly their four most important players — was too much. They were tougher — again. They were more physical — again. They played with more effort — again. They wanted it more — again.

Isaac Okoro didn't make any excuses.

Lackluster. Some games we have energy and some games we don’t.

JBB agreed.

We played in spurts. We can’t pick and choose when we’re going to be at our best.

You'd think this would be a game where the Cavs would "choose" to bring their best effort. After all, it was against the Knicks, the team that humiliated them in the playoffs last year. The season series was tied 1-1 so this game was the tiebreaker. And when Brunson went down in addition to Robinson, Randle, and Anunoby, the opportunity for a big win was right in front of them. But once again they wilted.

Jimmy Watkins of cleveland.com let them have it.

And when [Josh] Hart sunk a step-back 3-pointer with 1:36 remaining and pretended to steal Mitchell’s gold necklace afterward — “Ooooh, that’s nice,” Hart reportedly said of the jewelry — he sent a concerning message that should bother every Cavs player/coach and worry every Cleveland fan:

I own this team.

Consider Hart’s audacious celebration a reminder that New York harbors no fear — and perhaps not much more respect — for their former playoff adversaries...

But with New York missing four starters -- arguably its top four players -- after Brunson’s injury, Cleveland needed to take charge. It needed to beat the Knicks, if not beat them badly. The fact that they didn’t, even without Mitchell, highlights the same concerns they have been trying to assuage since New York sounded their alarms last spring.

But the Knicks have already proven they can bully Cleveland out of the postseason with both teams at full strength. So when they do it again without Brunson -- or Robinson, or Randle, or Anunoby -- only emboldens the bully’s bite. Don’t panic yet, but the Knicks just punked Cleveland with its lightest roster of the season. Hart just mocked the Cavs’ superstar while facing zero push back ...

New York owns the Cavs. Or at least, it thinks it does.

Have the Cavs given the Knicks any reason to respect them?

Right now, the Knicks look at the Cavs the same way Mike Tyson looked at Michael Spinks.

Tyson knows Tyson is going to win.

Spinks knows Tyson is going to win.

Tyson knows that Spinks knows that Tyson is going to win.

 

[Patdatass]

Team is getting laughed at (again) nationally for the Josh Hart viral video.

A team with any sort of spine will use that as motivation for the rest of the year, but I thought the same thing after the Mitchell Robinson playoff video with him literally laughing at us.

Team should have done something about the whole Josh Hart situation but so should have the officials/the league. I know that Hart and Mitchell are friends, but they literally just let a player on the court grab an injured player's (standing in the bench area) necklace. If Mitchell responds from the bench, we lose our star player for multiple games and probably others sitting on the bench as it would have gotten ugly and the NBA has strict rules about players that aren't on the court not fighting/entering the court to engage with the other team. Where were the refs on the court to punish Hart for trying to incite a brawl and where the hell is the NBA to punish him now. As for the Cavs, a player on the court should have stepped up and sent Hart flying into the stands the next time down the court. JB should have sent Niang (wouldn't miss him for a couple games) or one of our end of the bench players into the game to make sure Hart knew we don't play that shit. Just a complete failure all around.

 

[Dr No]

It seems odd to me that all we are talking about is toughness. Yes, we got out rebounded again, but nothing like the Bulls game. And we didn’t lose the turnover battle. And we actually got up and made a good number of 3’s - 38.6% on 44 attempts ought to be enough against the team we just played. I think we lost because we played their game - slow, plodding, slug-fest. They had no bench. They didn’t have nearly the skill players or length that we did. Up the tempo, get into the open floor, don’t let a Thibs team set its defense and dictate the way the game is played. The tighter we play against a team like this, the more it plays into their hands. We are not playing with pace or force - the exact things were doing before the break.