2023 Browns Off-Season Thread II: Free Agent Marathon: Settling in for the Long Haul: Slow and Steady: Patience is a Virtue: Loose Lips Sink Ships!

[The Wizard of Moz]

It’s almost like you want to be miserable

I addressed this at length but idk why you guys just can’t understand a different pov

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

If you were convinced to be excited with Baker and Freddie Kitchens, you should be hopeful now.

Idk it also kinda comes down to fool me once shame on me, fool me twice… can’t get fooled again at a certain point

Just like the Guardians have one of the best infrastructures in sports (minus the money to back it up) the browns objectively have one of the worst. Everyone in this thread is talking about playoffs and how we are a contender and then I look at odds and we’re projected to be right around the Steelers with the ravens and bengals well ahead

Do odds mean everything? No. But it does kind of show that this idea that anyone doubting the browns loves to be miserable is pretty out there. The browns are projected by browns fans to be a playoff team. The browns are projected by everyone else to be a .500 team that is near last in their division. I think there’s a heavy dose of overrating the team here

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

to me it all comes down to Watson. The team around him is good, but if we get Watson of last year we aren’t making the playoffs. If we get a genuine top 12 QB we make the playoffs. I’m just not sure that’s the layup some make it out to be. Watson was pretty brutal last year

 

[Hurl Bruce]

 

[Surge]

Idk it also kinda comes down to fool me once shame on me, fool me twice… can’t get fooled again at a certain point

Just like the Guardians have one of the best infrastructures in sports (minus the money to back it up) the browns objectively have one of the worst. Everyone in this thread is talking about playoffs and how we are a contender and then I look at odds and we’re projected to be right around the Steelers with the ravens and bengals well ahead

Do odds mean everything? No. But it does kind of show that this idea that anyone doubting the browns loves to be miserable is pretty out there. The browns are projected by browns fans to be a playoff team. The browns are projected by everyone else to be a .500 team that is near last in their division. I think there’s a heavy dose of overrating the team here

I looked it up because I don't generally dont gamble on win totals. But the vast majority of the league's over/under win total is in that 8-10 win range with a few outliers. For casino's that makes sense.

I don't blame anyone for wanting to see it on the field before mentally investing. I just don't see the reason to throw a wet blanket on the season before it starts when its pretty clear we have a roster with no glaring weaknesses (assuming health).

What more could Berry have done this offseason to give hope to a fan base?

 

[Ohio]

to me it all comes down to Watson. The team around him is good, but if we get Watson of last year we aren’t making the playoffs. If we get a genuine top 12 QB we make the playoffs. I’m just not sure that’s the layup some make it out to be. Watson was pretty brutal last year

Yep.

If we can get just 80% of the player Watson was in 2020, we're a contender.

If he's mediocre, we'll win 6-8 games again and be in a horrible spot as a franchise.

Everything else is in place. It's on Watson now.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

I looked it up because I don't generally dont gamble on win totals. But the vast majority of the league's over/under win total is in that 8-10 win range with a few outliers. For casino's that makes sense.

I don't blame anyone for wanting to see it on the field before mentally investing. I just don't see the reason to throw a wet blanket on the season before it starts when its pretty clear we have a roster with no glaring weaknesses (assuming health).

What more could Berry have done this offseason to give hope to a fan base?

Fair point! I only looked at the AFC North win totals and the bengals will obviously be one of the highest totals.

I don’t think we really disagree at all. I’m excited for the season. But I don’t mind the more pessimistic fans being pessimistic. I think it’s a pretty natural response to being let down so many times. Basically my only point is I don’t blame the fans for being exhausted

Best way I can put it is this. One of my buddies in my fantasy league is a yinzer fan. We used to bet every year league dues who finished higher in the AFC North. Last year I didn’t make that bet for the first time in years. I still think we will finish higher than the Steelers, but I can’t put my money on it anymore

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Idk it also kinda comes down to fool me once shame on me, fool me twice… can’t get fooled again at a certain point

Just like the Guardians have one of the best infrastructures in sports (minus the money to back it up) the browns objectively have one of the worst.

Can you expound upon this?

Andrew Berry is widely regarded as one of the best, brightest GM's in the sport. Most people tuned into the NFL believe in him and Stefanski--so why is that objectively one of the worst?

Everyone in this thread is talking about playoffs and how we are a contender

We are. Or, more specifically, we can be. It's entirely possible that Watson never gets his groove back, this franchise has to struggle with his albatross contract, and we have to rebuild in a post-Myles, Chubb, Ward world. So, while an implosion isn't out of the realm of possibility, the highest of highs is also possible. Talent-wise, this roster is right there with Buffalo, Cincinnati and Baltimore as the most talented rosters in the league. Of course, as we all know, that talent doesn't guarantee execution.

and then I look at odds and we’re projected to be right around the Steelers with the ravens and bengals well ahead. Do odds mean everything? No.

People put too much stock into Vegas odds.

Betting on change (Watson improving) is risky. The odds are going to reflect what happened last year--which was Watson looking bad.

Also, people who aren't Browns fans are going to want to bet the under on Deshaun Watson, and as the money skews that way, the line shifts.

But it does kind of show that this idea that anyone doubting the browns loves to be miserable is pretty out there.

I don't think anyone is going to tell you it's unreasonable to doubt the Browns, or that simply being skeptical makes you a curmudgeon.

However, going on Twitter to shit on people and cry "woe is me!" is not just doubting or being skeptical. That is actively being a misery-loving curmudgeon. It is that sort of behavior which will generate that derision. Saying fuck the new player who joined the franchise and dared to call out the miserable behavior that he's seeing in public is a pretty bad look.

The browns are projected by browns fans to be a playoff team.

I think I'm pretty optimistic. I think that outside of the Chiefs, Bills, Bengals, Ravens and Eagles, we have as good a shot as anyone. However, I don't think playoffs are even expected/projected. I hope we'll be there, but the AFC is absurdly stacked. The AFC North is absurdly stacked, and we're starting behind the eight ball with a franchise QB who needs to be better than he was last year.

If that improvement doesn't happen--if Watson doesn't regain his form, we're dead in the water and nothing else matters.

The browns are projected by everyone else to be a .500 team that is near last in their division. I think there’s a heavy dose of overrating the team here

Over/under win totals aren't a projection. They're designed to get equal money on each side of the scale to maximize profit and reduce exposure. As for other projections, I don't think a 9-8 or 10-7 projection is that out there. Seems about right.

Also, yeah, the Bengals are better than us because of Joe Burrow. The Ravens are better than us because of Lamar Jackson. However, Lamar hasn't finished a season healthy in how long?

Open the season and we can lose to anyone. Get us into the playoffs and we can beat anyone. The Browns have one of the largest spreads of possible outcomes on the year. I wouldn't be surprised if people are talking about us being a team that has a range of outcomes as wild as 5-12 to 13-4.

 

[Erbium]

It would be much easier to be optimistic on the Browns being "contenders" or even "play-off contenders" if we weren't in our current division. Bengals are in their best stretch in 30+ years, the Ravens have an MVP quarterback and are incredibly well run organization, and the Steelers are making the playoffs during a rebuild (and are widely regarded as one of, if not THE, best organization in the league).

This division is part of the conditioning of Browns fans. Even when you are good, you aren't good enough. Still never won the AFC North. Still unlikely to ever be perceived as better run organization than Ravens or Steelers...it's the comparison/contrast that makes you feel so defeated, even when you have an incredibly talented roster.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

It would be much easier to be optimistic on the Browns being "contenders" or even "play-off contenders" if we weren't in our current division. Bengals are in their best stretch in 30+ years, the Ravens have an MVP quarterback and are incredibly well run organization, and the Steelers are making the playoffs during a rebuild (and are widely regarded as one of, if not THE, best organization in the league).

This division is part of the conditioning of Browns fans. Even when you are good, you aren't good enough. Still never won the AFC North. Still unlikely to ever be perceived as better run organization than Ravens or Steelers...it's the comparison/contrast that makes you feel so defeated, even when you have an incredibly talented roster.

You're spot-on with Pittsburgh. People like to still hold on to Belichick because of his legacy, but make no mistake about it--everyone in the league knows that Tomlin is the #1 coach and leader of men in the game.

Baltimore? One more fallout and they could be on the rocks. Lamar gets hurt, Harbaugh gets fired, they no longer have Ozzie, they could be in complete rebuild quite quickly. Of course, as long as their starting 22 is healthy, they're better than us and almost every other team in the league.... but their starting 22 has never finished a season healthy.

All you can ask for is a shot--and with Deshaun Watson, this roster, and Stefanski, we have a shot. We won't be favorites. Favorites are reserved for teams with a QB named Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, etc--but we're in that second tier.

 

[DirtyDan]

I would like to say discussion about expectations will never leave people satisfied. We hinge too much on the past and have difficulty perceiving into the future.

This looks like a fun team and the typical NFL season is completely unpredictable. Just hope for good health and a playoff birth then roll with the punches.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I can't relate to a lot of these comments or negative mindsets on the team.

Every year, once the off-season starts and the first FA is signed, and the draft picks are made, I'm seeing nothing but success and glory in the team's future. I'm going down the schedule and predicting the record. All of my "maybes" get counted as wins, baby! Legalized sports betting? Give me the over on season wins!!!

I don't get pessimistic until I see too much bullshit on the field.

Then I repeat this every off-season.

Biggest skill when it comes to being a Cleveland sports fan is a combination of relentless optimism and a willingness to just not click on Browns or Cavs topics in the days following a loss.

 

[Vee-Rex]

Looking at our division...

I really don't have faith in Pickett. Maybe Tomlin can coach them to .500 as he always does. I just feel like they're clinging on the edge and the ghost of shittiness is going to hit them hard one of these seasons. Their roster isn't impressive at all to me. But who knows, maybe they dodge bullets again and squeak out another 9 wins.

Ravens are also up in the air to me. All talks so far is that Monken is going to have Lamar passing A LOT and... I don't know, man. It could be great or bad for them. Depends on if teams start defending the pass more without worrying about his legs.

Bengals are probably good for around 10 or 11 wins. I don't see them getting to 14/15 wins like their fans are seriously projecting. AFCN and the AFC in general is just too tough, IMO. Bengals will be good but they will need to keep Burrow from being the most sacked QB or it's going to catch up to them.

Of course we have a lot of questions ourselves... but I do think we can compete in this division and fight for the playoffs with this team.

 

[Soar]

My view of the Browns all comes down to a few words

“Don’t tell me, show me”

Let’s see the product on the field. Are there reasons for enthusiasm ? Yes. Are there reasons for high expectations ? Absolutely.

Let’s see the record show that. There are no moral victories this year.

AB has given KS a roster where there are no excuses.

 

[Vee-Rex]

My view of the Browns all comes down to a few words

“Don’t tell me, show me”

Let’s see the product on the field. Are there reasons for enthusiasm ? Yes. Are there reasons for high expectations ? Absolutely.

Let’s see the record show that. There are no moral victories this year.

AB has given KS a roster where there are no excuses.

I guarantee if we come out with another 7-10 season no one will be happy with the results.

There is a difference between optimism and expectation. Just because someone is optimistic and supporting the team doesn't mean they don't also expect it to show on the field.