HammerGold
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Rosario has a .523 OPS against right handers. Tito explain the decision to PH him against a righty.
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2023 Cleveland Guardians Season Thread
- Thread starter Juice is Loose
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HammerGold
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I mean even .774 isn't very good for a guy who is strictly a DH. Like you said production isn't linear so you expect a guy like Bell to have some stretches with. 850+ OPS and that probably won't happen since he's Mr Ground Ball now
After perusing pages and pages of this thread, it seems that the general concensus is...
Replace Amed with Arias.
Replace Straw with Brennan.
Replace Zunino with Bo.
Get Valera up here as soon as possible.
No matter how much you want that, it ain't gonna happen. But just for fun, lets say it does. What do you have? What could such a lineup look like?
Kwan L
Gimenez L
Jose S
J Naylor L
Bell S
Arias R
Valera L
Bo Naylor L
Brennan L
See a problem?
That problem is compounded by the fact that Arias has reverse splits. The worst hitting team in the AL vs lefties would become even worse...and would be that way for years.
To give you a sense of how bad we are vs lefties...
In 2019 the FO gave Jake Bauers a real run at locking down first base, and he failed about as badly as possible. His wRC+ for the season was 82. We couldn't wait to see him gone.
This team has a wRC+ vs lefties of 84. As a team we hit lefties as bad as Jake Bauers hit for us.
This team doesn't need just another RH bat that can hit LHP. It needs two.
********
Additionally, a lot of sentiment to trade Bieber, Civale, and Quantrill...presumably for more prospects.
We got to the last week of Spring training with five SPs in the rotation. 80% of that rotation either flopped or went on the IL. In addition, two youngsters who were expected to get some starts this year also went on the IL, one of which we won't see for years, if ever. But we want to trade away three vet SPs?
And since our 40 man is filled to the brim with young players too valuable to trade...according to this board...what do we do with the influx of talent we get from trading 60% of our rotation?
Replace Amed with Arias.
Replace Straw with Brennan.
Replace Zunino with Bo.
Get Valera up here as soon as possible.
No matter how much you want that, it ain't gonna happen. But just for fun, lets say it does. What do you have? What could such a lineup look like?
Kwan L
Gimenez L
Jose S
J Naylor L
Bell S
Arias R
Valera L
Bo Naylor L
Brennan L
See a problem?
That problem is compounded by the fact that Arias has reverse splits. The worst hitting team in the AL vs lefties would become even worse...and would be that way for years.
To give you a sense of how bad we are vs lefties...
In 2019 the FO gave Jake Bauers a real run at locking down first base, and he failed about as badly as possible. His wRC+ for the season was 82. We couldn't wait to see him gone.
This team has a wRC+ vs lefties of 84. As a team we hit lefties as bad as Jake Bauers hit for us.
This team doesn't need just another RH bat that can hit LHP. It needs two.
********
Additionally, a lot of sentiment to trade Bieber, Civale, and Quantrill...presumably for more prospects.
We got to the last week of Spring training with five SPs in the rotation. 80% of that rotation either flopped or went on the IL. In addition, two youngsters who were expected to get some starts this year also went on the IL, one of which we won't see for years, if ever. But we want to trade away three vet SPs?
And since our 40 man is filled to the brim with young players too valuable to trade...according to this board...what do we do with the influx of talent we get from trading 60% of our rotation?
HammerGold
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I'd keep Amed to platoon against lefties but that's it. He has no business being a starting SS. He's been terrible at the plate and in the field.
The bottom line is we probably aren't going anywhere this year. Some guys are having down years, the FO had a bad off season... It is what it is. Deal guys who aren't part of the future and in the off season you can try to trade some of prospects for MLB ready bats.
sportscoach
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You know Valera is hurt right?
CDAV45
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Just so everyone knows, this is not completely accurate, but there is some truth to it. I think I've made it abundantly clear that I want Kwan in CF, Straw moved to 4th OFer and I'd look to deal Brennan. I've also stated that I would use Valera(once healthy) to acquire a need as well.
CATS is correct in saying that we collectively would like to see Bo replace Zunino and I still would. Zunino is the worst C I've ever seen don a Cleveland uniform.
I've attempted several times to explain to him that the FO does not see 2023 as part of the "window". They're not trying to lose by any means, but they know this is another developmental year and a season where many of our better prospects will be promoted. We're seeing Arias, Herrin, Freeman, Rocchio, Bibee, Allen, Curry, Battenfield and a couple of other guys already and it's only June 3rd. You're going to see Bo, Williams and possibly Cantillo this season as well.
You're going to see some SP dealt and knowing this organization which ones do you think it will be, the ones approaching FA or the young, uber talented kids starting to surface?
There's too much LH hitting and there's far too many punch and judy hitters. CATS is correct in saying that we don't just need a RH bat, we need two. They have the means in ML players and prospects to get a couple and a good, near ready/ready SP prospect as well and it's going to happen.
I think the biggest factor in keeping Amed around was Jose. There's just no logical explanation otherwise unless they felt it was too early to give any of Rocchio, Freeman or Arias SS duties. Clearly they don't want to move Gimenez back to SS and that's understandable.
I'll give you a list of players I'd be willing to trade to get a couple of RH bats and at least one more good SP prospect ready for an opportunity. Those names are Bieber, Civale, Quantrill, Brennan, Morgan, Freeman, Valera, Rocchio(for the right return), Gaddis, Battenfield, Curry, Karinchak, Sandlin and any other prospect not named Williams, Bibee, Espino, Allen or Naylor.
We'll see what happens, but I'm certain there is going to be some turnover by the deadline. If they sit on their hands then they have shorted all of us IMO. I don't for one second believe that will be the case. I think the FO can address the needs of this team by dealing 2 of Bieber, Quantrill and Civale, but I'd look to move all 3 at the deadline if possible. I'd also look to thin some of the LHH which is basically Brennan and Valera.
CDAV45
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I wouldn't. What's the point? He's not going to be here after this season.
Out of the Rafters at the Q
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I'm not positive, but there's a good chance it was me. Pretty sure I was questioning his power.
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I don't think folks are clamoring for Valera, not until he's raking in Columbus. He just started playing and is 3-for-16. Give him another 100 AB's and see where he's at.
If anything I would put Rocchio at short (.323/.854 at Columbus with better defense than Rosario plus switch hitting), Brennan in center (9 hits in his last 16 AB's), Arias in right (.789 OPS in May), and start Gallagher at catcher (leads all catchers in defensive runs saved despite playing fewer innings).
Major League Leaderboards - 2023 - Fielding | FanGraphs Baseball
Statcast ranks Gallagher 3rd in framing and 6th in outs above average among catchers. If neither catcher can hit we might as well get the best glove in there.
"Cam has done a really good job catching since Day 1," Francona said. "He always catches a really good game."
However, Rosario isn't going anywhere. As Pluto pointed out today...
Rosario batted .236 (.626 OPS) heading into June 2022. This season, he’s at .227 (.593 OPS). Rosario usually warms up at the plate in June.
Tito thinks he just has to stay the course and Amed will finish the season with a .280 BA just like the last two years. The difference is Tito didn't have Rocchio and Arias ready to step in until now.
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Bieber only gets traded once they've given up on this season. If they trade those three they have McKenzie, Allen, Bibee, Williams, and Cantillo as the starters next year with Morris, Betancourt, Gaddis in reserve. I agree - that's not enough. I would keep Quantrill or Civale. I'm not high on Betancourt or Gaddis as starters and Morris gets hurt a lot.
I would trade Bieber to a contender for the best package of prospects we can get to add to the pile, then after the season we'll have a boatload of prospects to trade to a rebuilding team for a major league ready impact bat. If possible I would make the team trading for Bieber to take Josh Bell as well. We don't want to pay $17 million next year to watch him walk and hit ground balls.
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I saw a stat recently that teams that do not hit a home run in a game win 29% of the time. The Guardians are kind of paying the price for years of using their top non-pitching picks on middle infielders. That approach may be changing with the drafting of DeLauter this year.
Part of the problem was Franmil Reyes flaming out. He was supposed to be a 40 HR guy in the cleanup spot. Another factor was the failures of Will Benson and Nolan Jones to develop into major league power bats. They're still hoping for Arias, Valera, and Bo Naylor. Noel has a shot, having made it to AAA at age 21, but he's hitting just .189 in Columbus.
I'm also confident the front office will move Bieber for a power bat, or for prospects who can then be moved for power hitting.
Part of the problem was Franmil Reyes flaming out. He was supposed to be a 40 HR guy in the cleanup spot. Another factor was the failures of Will Benson and Nolan Jones to develop into major league power bats. They're still hoping for Arias, Valera, and Bo Naylor. Noel has a shot, having made it to AAA at age 21, but he's hitting just .189 in Columbus.
I'm also confident the front office will move Bieber for a power bat, or for prospects who can then be moved for power hitting.
Out of the Rafters at the Q
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Don't forget guys like Clint Frazier, Bobby Bradley, Jhonkensy Noel...
We've drafted and tried to develop corners and bats. They just don't pan out that often
The Wizard of Moz
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Bieber is a must move imo
His trajectory is shit and I don’t think he’s a true ace at this point
Find someone willing to give a true ace return and get him out of here bc I think his best years are behind him
His trajectory is shit and I don’t think he’s a true ace at this point
Find someone willing to give a true ace return and get him out of here bc I think his best years are behind him