2023 Guardians Spring Training Thread

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Cats getting absolutely eviscerated in here

As it should be.

He knows that the tracking data, which is an objective way to evaluate a player's range, says that Amed's range is poor. This was shared by @BimboColesHair multiple times last year.

But rather than discuss reality, he thinks that by just regurgitating some stats, he's making an argument. He's being disingenuous at best.

It's the same thing with someone talking about the entirety of Amed's offense and someone responding "BUT HE HAD A LOT OF HITS!"

Like, yeah, he had a lot of hits--and very few walks, and very little power. When we talk about his ability as a hitter, all of those things are taken into account.

 

[KluberSociety]

I think the question about OAA is, is this the only thing we should be looking at or does it provide some value to still look at DFS, UZR, etc? I think that while OAA may be the best, the fact that he does do well in other grading systems shows something and at least makes the case that he might not be terrible out there, but good he is not.

Question is, what do we gain/lose by replacing him defensively with another option? I'm not convinced that Arias and Rocchio are clear upgrades now at the SS position defensively. They may be slightly better but if Rocchio has any questions about his throwing that can be a problem. Might just be better to punt it to next year or even midseason which is what it looks like they're doing.

I feel like Gimenez SS / Rocchio 2B might end up being the thing.

 

[CDAV45]

I was just looking at mlb.com's Guardians' top 30 prospects list.

Guardians Top Prospects

The Official Site of Major League Baseball

www.mlb.com

What jumped out at me is that 9 of the top 11 show an arrival date of 2023. It's not like most of our best prospects are 2-4 years away. The only ones who will definitely not be an option this season are Angel Martinez (2024) and Chase DeLauter (2025). The rest are already at AAA or will be to start this year (assuming Espino, Williams, and Bibee start at AAA).

Not only is our roster set except for the backup catcher and last bullpen position, but we have a horde of excellent prospects who are just being finished off, or may be finished off already in the case of Brennan and Arias.

Freeman isn't even on the list and he's not on the Fangraphs list either. Do they consider him a major leaguer after just 77 at-bats last year? I consider him to be a prospect. If you include him in the top 10 somewhere it's 10 of our top 12 prospects who are either ready or almost there.

Fangraphs is less optimistic, showing just 5 of the top 10 arriving this year. They don't show Gavin Williams arriving until 2025. I wonder if they are basing their dates on anticipated openings in the Guardians' rotation as current starters reach free agency, or if they think Williams needs two more years in the minors.

In any event we're going to have a roster crunch coming soon as other posters have repeatedly pointed out. And the Clippers should be loaded this year.

Does this mean the Guardians may be less inclined to trade Rosario assuming they are in contention? Do they really need another prospect? They already have way more than they have spots for.

If Bo Naylor is struggling in Columbus and they can get a better catching prospect for Rosario and one of our blocked prospects then that deal would make sense, although you hate to bring in a rookie shortstop in mid-season when you're going for the World Series (or move Gimenez to short). But moving Gimenez up to the 2-hole would be a good move, IMO.

Unless there is a setback Bibee, Williams and Allen will be ready to make their debuts this year. That doesn't mean they will though. I'd like to see them add to that group. Espino would be ready as well if he were healthy, but.......

How many SP from Cleveland walk into FA?

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Rosario getting traded or not getting traded has more to do with Arias than Rosario himself. If Arias is going to realize his potential and play like he did as a 19 and 21 yr old then Amed can't touch him. You're looking at a very dynamic player. That's not to say there isn't reasons for some to doubt, but I see very little reason to at this point. You shouldn't form an opinion on a young, talented player based off of one season where he was injured. That's just silly. So far this spring Arias has been one of, if not the best player for us. Rosario should not be in his way and if he is then they do not consider themselves WS contenders. Basically, if Rosario is traded that means Arias is performing well and the Guardians are a better team for it. Dealing Amed doesn't mean they have to take a prospect that is near ready. They may be able to get a lower level prospect with a higher ceiling actually. There's more risk in that obviously, but there is more reward as well.

There's more than enough talent to make a trade or 3 to fill some gaps. Finding the right player available is the challenge I'd guess.

 

[BimboColesHair]

The only defensive stat that takes into account a player's starting point on the field is OAA right now. Statcast is the only service right now that is capable of tracking all of that positional info in real time over the course of every game played in an MLB season.

All other stats treat players like they are starting at the same point on the field, by position, every play they make.

In the age of shifts or coaches positioning defenders based on the current batter it makes a lot of defensive metrics wildly inaccurate when it comes to what the player is actually doing.

UZR, DRS, etc. are good for fans to talk about and discuss or see if player A is good defensively here or there or what not, but for the past decade it's been more of a metric that tells you how good your coaches are at getting your defensive players in the right positions.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

With the guys waiting, I think they would have traded Rosario if anyone made a decent offer. The fact that he is still in Cleveland suggests Cleveland must value him higher than others. I don't dislike him, but he has not set a standard that should be too difficult to replace.

 

[CDAV45]

Rosario doesn't have a great range at SS, but he cut way down on the errors and that put up his stats as a SS.

At the end of the day, he's average at SS at best and if it wasn't for the fact of his high intangibles he likely wouldn't be on the roster right now. He is a proven guy that you know what to expect from and it's hustle, hustle and more hustle.

Pretty much what all of us have been saying. Although I will correct you by saying that Amed doesn't have good range at SS. He's also terrible on the double play turn and throw as well. IMO he's not actually a SS. He's a fast runner put at SS to create value. He can make the routine play hit within close range to him. He doesn't have the sexy offensive profile to play 3B or 2B if he can even play them adequately. Look at the experiment in CF with him. It was disastrous. Now go watch Owen Miller play CF. He looks so much more natural and he had less experience there than Amed. NO, I'm not pining for Miller back. It's just a comparison.

 

[CDAV45]

So Antoinetti said he was optimistic a few days ago about getting at least 1 deal done with the guys who are 'eligible' for an extension. That's a pretty broad group, frankly. Who do some of you think are likely candidates? I wonder if Rosario isn't one of them. I doubt Bieber but the club signed Straw last year out of nowhere to a long-term deal. Maybe Kwan? Gimenez? Stephan?

I'm gonna go with McKenzie as the most likely. I think both Kwan and Gimenez could accept extensions if offered decent ones. I'll pretty much shit my pants if Bieber accepts an extension from Cleveland or if Cleveland offers one big enough to entice him. The idea of offering Rosario an extension probably doesn't exist in the minds of Chernoff or CA.

 

[CDAV45]

I'd like to clarify again that I'm not "bashing" Amed. He brings some value to a roster with his speed and ability to hit. The problem I have with him on our roster is how he's used or his role. Well, that and his lack of versatility because he shouldn't be a starting SS on a championship caliber team unless the rest of the roster is absolutely loaded. I'll go as far to say that I would rather have Amed on the bench than Freeman. Between Arias, Gimenez, Rocchio and a few others Amed's time as Cleveland's SS is drawing to a close as it should be.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

I'm gonna go with McKenzie as the most likely. I think both Kwan and Gimenez could accept extensions if offered decent ones. I'll pretty much shit my pants if Bieber accepts an extension from Cleveland or if Cleveland offers one big enough to entice him. The idea of offering Rosario an extension probably doesn't exist in the minds of Chernoff or CA.

I agree. McKenzie has had some past injury issues so he will appreciate the risk that goes with the job very well. With Kwan they could wait one more year just to confirm the production is stable. It will likely cost more in a year but you have better assurances that you won't regret it. Gimenez could be a costly extension but I do think he is worth it. Bieber I see little chance.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I'd like to clarify again that I'm not "bashing" Amed. He brings some value to a roster with his speed and ability to hit. The problem I have with him on our roster is how he's used or his role. Well, that and his lack of versatility because he shouldn't be a starting SS on a championship caliber team unless the rest of the roster is absolutely loaded. I'll go as far to say that I would rather have Amed on the bench than Freeman. Between Arias, Gimenez, Rocchio and a few others Amed's time as Cleveland's SS is drawing to a close as it should be.

Amed will be remembered along with Jhonny Peralta, Asdrubal Cabrera et al

"He was fine"

I'm eager for the Rocchio era to begin.

I'm also eager for us to find out what we have in Arias and Freeman.

Amed stands in the way of all that, and I don't think he's good enough to warrant it.

All that being said, if you want to win a game tomorrow, he's the safest option to do so.

It's a balancing act.

 

[Lee]

Amed will be remembered along with Jhonny Peralta, Asdrubal Cabrera et al

"He was fine"

I'm eager for the Rocchio era to begin.

I'm also eager for us to find out what we have in Arias and Freeman.

Amed stands in the way of all that, and I don't think he's good enough to warrant it.

All that being said, if you want to win a game tomorrow, he's the safest option to do so.

It's a balancing act.

100% agree. Amed should not be remembered as fondly as Omar Vizquel, but some act like he is garbage which he is not that either. He is a decent hitter and fielder, not great at fielding and doesnt walk enough to be great at batting, but average MLB short stop in 2023 is still pretty damn good compared to others. Its the position that typically attracts your best athletes and the position that 75% of kids play that make the majors when they are in little league. (outside of pitchers, and even then, lol)

Just agreeing that the hate Amed gets from some is not warranted even if we are 90% sure he wont be with the team in 2024.

 

[Criznit]

Today's lineup - IMO Hunter Gaddis is working his way into that 6th starter spot. If he pitches a gem.....

P. Hunter Gaddis (R)

1. Steven Kwan (L) LF
2. Amed Rosario (R) DH
3. Jose Ramirez (S) 3B
4. Josh Naylor (L) 1B
5. Oscar Gonzalez (R) RF
6. Will Brennan (L) CF
7. Gabriel Arias (R) SS
8. Mike Zunino (R) C
9. Tyler Freeman (R) 2B

 

[PocketMonger]

Amed is usually a slow starter and with Arias and Freeman breathing down his neck he could lose his job if he waits until to June to start hitting. Good chance this gets settled organically.

Amed would be a terribly overpriced bench piece in Cleveland but its only one year so it's not back breaking.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Amed is one of Tito's favorite players. He thinks he sets a good example for the younger players.
That's why Amed is not going anywhere, at least not soon.

 

[Tondo]

Two more PB from Zunino in just one inning.

Clase and Karinchak late in close games will be easier to figure out if Zunino can't block their breaking pitches. I already hate thinking about it