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2023 Season | Series #22 | Guardians @ Padres | June 13-15, 2023

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His pop time so far (very low sample) has actually been great and would put him in the upper half of the league. Not sure how sustainable that is at all. Framing stats probably aren't going to like him. I didn't notice him do anything wrong last night but he didn't get some calls. But I'd blame variance rather than his skills there.

Gallagher has improved his pop time this year mainly through quick transfers but his pop time is still in the bottom 50%.

Fry 1.91s to 2B, Gallagher 1.96s to 2B, Zunino 2.04s to 2B. Clearly one stands out and it isn't in a good way.
Thanks KS! That's great info as the talk about Fry's deficiencies as a C weren't matching up with what I was seeing. He seems to block balls well too and he's actually very agile behind the plate IMO. That leaves the question of "framing", which I don't put a lot of value in the metrics surrounding the idea anyway.
 
Hence why I personally want to keep Gallagher/a defensive minded backup with Naylor...
I need to see more of Fry I believe. If we're to be competitive while having a payroll in the lower half of the league then we need everyone to contribute. If Fry is going to hit then his C skills that we've seen so far are more than adequate. Hell, he might be the best defensive C we have at this time next year. His throws are the best we've seen this year and it isn't even close.
 
I think this is assuming too much right now. If Fry continues to look adequate behind the plate and hit well, then that helps this team tremendously. It basically allows your utility player to have a C on his resume as well as all the other positions and then you don't have to weigh down your roster with a non-hitting backup C like Gallagher. In the end they may determine that Fry isn't good enough with the gear on, but that seems unlikely after watching Zunino to this point. Fry is a helluva lot better than him and hanging around Sandy will probably help him get even better. The same applies to Bo as well.

My guess is that most of this will be determined by Fry's bat. The question is how are they going to go about getting him reps?

In 23, I'd go with all three since Naylor and Fry need to still get used to the majors as a catcher so having a veteran like Gallagher around is smart plus we know the pitchers like throwing to Gallagher. Naylor can DH as well against RH pitchers, so that allows him to keep his ABs...

I'm also looking long term and how I would personally construct the bench. I always have guys who can play a bunch of positions with at least average defense. I feel like with Fry having played pretty much everything but CF and SS over the years, he's a perfect candidate as a bench guy. Plus we have a lot of left handed hitters in the organization. So having an utility like Fry who can play a bunch of positions, would be a perfect bench guy.

Now, having him as strictly the backup catcher, in my mind, is doing him a disservice, but if he can show he is strong enough defensively, then I can merit doing that. I'm just the type, to always like a strong defensive catcher as the backup regardless of the bat...

So in 23, keep him in his current role and when spring of 24 comes around, keep Gallagher and give Fry the chance/choice on his role...

I need to see more of Fry I believe. If we're to be competitive while having a payroll in the lower half of the league then we need everyone to contribute. If Fry is going to hit then his C skills that we've seen so far are more than adequate. Hell, he might be the best defensive C we have at this time next year. His throws are the best we've seen this year and it isn't even close.

I was chewed out by saying we need to see more of Fry before we decide anything the other day. We are on the same page when we both want to see more of Fry...

I am personally at the point, cut Zunino, replace him with like Schneeman or something, at least short term, and give Gallagher and Fry the starts until Naylor is ready to come up.
 
Thanks KS! That's great info as the talk about Fry's deficiencies as a C weren't matching up with what I was seeing. He seems to block balls well too and he's actually very agile behind the plate IMO. That leaves the question of "framing", which I don't put a lot of value in the metrics surrounding the idea anyway.
I'm not sure the status of robo umps but if that ever gets implemented (I've seen 2024 as a potential first season), framing becomes an entirely moot point.

And basically all of Gallagher's value goes down the gutter.
 
I'm not sure the status of robo umps but if that ever gets implemented (I've seen 2024 as a potential first season), framing becomes an entirely moot point.

And basically all of Gallagher's value goes down the gutter.
IMO - "Framing" as has always been sort of suspect and is actively being replaced by pop time/CS%.
 
I'm not sure the status of robo umps but if that ever gets implemented (I've seen 2024 as a potential first season), framing becomes an entirely moot point.

And basically all of Gallagher's value goes down the gutter.
There was a news report yesterday that MLB will NOT utilize robo umps in 2024.
IIRC it was running during the continuous cycle feed on ESPN2.
 
IMO - "Framing" as has always been sort of suspect and is actively being replaced by pop time/CS%.
thought i heard someone earlier this week refer to "framing" as baseball's version of "flopping"
 
I'm not sure the status of robo umps but if that ever gets implemented (I've seen 2024 as a potential first season), framing becomes an entirely moot point.

And basically all of Gallagher's value goes down the gutter.
I dont agree with that.

In 1351.2 innings behind the plate...basically three seasons for a backup catcher, Gallagher has put up 20 DRS. Thats pretty darn good...and a lot more than mere framing.

********

I dont see Fry as the backup catcher....unless Sandy could work some kind of miracle in less than a year.... or a starter anywhere on the field, but I could see a realistic role for him on this roster. Third catcher, perhaps a personal catcher for one starter, and corner util guy.

We will probably have some combination of Freeman and Rocchio as our MIF starter and inf util. So MIF is covered, along with 3B.

Neither of those look like a solution to backing up 1B or in the corner OF. Right now we have Arias to do that. Arias looks very good defensively at first, but spotty in RF...but my guess...just a guess...is that he is better defensively at those positions than Fry.

But with a bat...as this roster is constructed...and barring any outside additions....Fry is a better fit. He has been a better all around hitter than Arias, esp vs LHP. He has shown more power.

The numbers vs LHP are particularly stark.

Over the last three years..OPS:

Fry...988...813...899.

Arias...757...694...356.

You are the HR person. The job description is part time corner player and bench bat, to fill in and pinch hit against LHP. Ability to play catcher on a limited basis a plus.

******

I'm not saying that Fry will be a better player than Arias. Nor am I basing it on one game. I'm just saying that he better fits what this roster needs at the moment.
 
I dont agree with that.

In 1351.2 innings behind the plate...basically three seasons for a backup catcher, Gallagher has put up 20 DRS. Thats pretty darn good...and a lot more than mere framing.

********

I dont see Fry as the backup catcher....unless Sandy could work some kind of miracle in less than a year.... or a starter anywhere on the field, but I could see a realistic role for him on this roster. Third catcher, perhaps a personal catcher for one starter, and corner util guy.

We will probably have some combination of Freeman and Rocchio as our MIF starter and inf util. So MIF is covered, along with 3B.

Neither of those look like a solution to backing up 1B or in the corner OF. Right now we have Arias to do that. Arias looks very good defensively at first, but spotty in RF...but my guess...just a guess...is that he is better defensively at those positions than Fry.

But with a bat...as this roster is constructed...and barring any outside additions....Fry is a better fit. He has been a better all around hitter than Arias, esp vs LHP. He has shown more power.

The numbers vs LHP are particularly stark.

Over the last three years..OPS:

Fry...988...813...899.

Arias...757...694...356.

You are the HR person. The job description is part time corner player and bench bat, to fill in and pinch hit against LHP. Ability to play catcher on a limited basis a plus.

******

I'm not saying that Fry will be a better player than Arias. Nor am I basing it on one game. I'm just saying that he better fits what this roster needs at the moment.
Literally 13 out of his 20 DRS is framing. That's about 2/3 of that precious DRS. But it appears to be a moot point with robo umps being delayed beyond 2024 which is his last year under contract.

But in hypothetical land, if you took away that framing advantage, you just wouldn't have much to compensate his godawful hitting, which seems to be in decline over the last 2 years (way more K's, lower xStats, etc). Especially with base stealing prevention being a more impactful skill nowadays, which is by far his weakest DRS breakdown (-5).
 
He has been a better all around hitter than Arias
In 2021, Player A reached AAA for the first time at Age 21 where he posted an .802 OPS in 115 games.
In 2021, Player B reached AA for the first time at Age 25, where he posted a .788 OPS in 75 games.

Cats: "Player B has clearly been the better hitter"

:doh:
 
Literally 13 out of his 20 DRS is framing. That's about 2/3 of that precious DRS. But it appears to be a moot point with robo umps being delayed beyond 2024 which is his last year under contract.

But in hypothetical land, if you took away that framing advantage, you just wouldn't have much to compensate his godawful hitting, which seems to be in decline over the last 2 years (way more K's, lower xStats, etc).
Thanks for displaying an understanding of the numbers being bandied about.

It's refreshing amongst a sea of people wielding numbers they don't understand as weapons in order to win an argument.

Posts like yours build discussion and we don't say enough nice things about them.
 
To me, Fry is just an utility guy who can play catcher at a decent level. That gives you way more roster flexibility at the end of the day. If he becomes anymore then sweet, but that's all I need from him...
 
To me, Fry is just an utility guy who can play catcher at a decent level. That gives you way more roster flexibility at the end of the day. If he becomes anymore then sweet, but that's all I need from him...
I think replace "utility guy" with "RH corner infield bat". He can't really do a whole lot else very well, his bat has to be his value in the equation. With J-Nay sucking against LHP that is his main value.

At least he has a history of success vs. LHP which O. Miller, Arias, and J-Nay didn't/don't have.

But if Gallagher is out of service and Lavastida is no good defensively either, he might end up being our best option as a full-time backup C. I don't think it should necessarily be ruled out. I do think it's kind of funny to look at someone like Gallagher as being significantly better suited to that role when he is kind of bad.
 
I think replace "utility guy" with "RH corner infield bat". He can't really do a whole lot else very well, his bat has to be his value in the equation. With J-Nay sucking against LHP that is his main value.

At least he has a history of success vs. LHP which O. Miller, Arias, and J-Nay didn't/don't have.

But if Gallagher is out of service and Lavastida is no good defensively either, he might end up being our best option as a full-time backup C. I don't think it should necessarily be ruled out. I do think it's kind of funny to look at someone like Gallagher as being significantly better suited to that role when he is kind of bad.

He's going to play 1B, 3B and C throughout the season... That's an utility guy. Plus he was converted from 2B originally so he can play there as well. Next off season, if he continues the role he is currently in, he will get some reps in LF/RF... He's an utility guy... Why would he be anything else outside of backup C since that's the most pressing need in my mind...
 
He's going to play 1B, 3B and C throughout the season... That's an utility guy. Plus he was converted from 2B originally so he can play there as well. Next off season, if he continues the role he is currently in, he will get some reps in LF/RF... He's an utility guy... Why would he be anything else outside of backup C since that's the most pressing need in my mind...
I think he's a lot better off learning how to catch better than play the remaining positions. We have Arias, Freeman, Rocchio, et al for the rest.

I would also much prefer having the aforementioned's bats than Cam Gallagher's on the roster.
 

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