2023 Season | Series #25 | Brewers @ Guardians | June 23-25, 2023

[sportscoach]

I feel like with Tito, he is more about developing guys/finding the personality of the roster in the first half and he then makes the changes for the second half...

 

[Martyinnewyork]

Hopefully, Tito is a long way from retiring, and hopefully, nothing changes. (Although a bigger budget would be nice.)

I kinda like watching one of the winningest teams year in and year out in baseball.

CATS I respect your opinions on lots of matters, but you have to be blind to not see the numerous idiotic moves and non-moves that Tito makes on a regular basis. I know- ”he’s a Hall of Fame manager“.

 

[Criznit]

If you are going to split hairs so fine that you pinch run Myles Straw for Tyler Freeman, then you better pinch hit Bell or Fry for Straw.

 

[KluberSociety]

If you are going to split hairs so fine that you pinch run Myles Straw for Tyler Freeman, then you better pinch hit Bell or Fry for Straw.

Yeah I was wondering where the hell Bell was. It just didn't make any sense how he wasn't used in that game.

 

[KluberSociety]

If Tito is a "Hall of Fame manager" (I really don't know anything about that topic) it isn't for his tactical in-game decisions. So bringing that up is just a head scratcher anyway. However, he really doesn't err that much compared to a lot of other MLB managers over the past decade including WS winners (Ned Yost, looking at you). So what you really have is a great clubhouse manager who doesn't generally kill you with the in-game stuff. But lately his in-game decisions just do seem worse than they've been in the past. Blaming him for stuff like the MIF situation does seem silly though because at most he's just a part of it and he's really not the one setting the roster.

CATS I respect your opinions on lots of matters, but you have to be blind to not see the numerous idiotic moves and non-moves that Tito makes on a regular basis. I know- ”he’s a Hall of Fame manager“.

 

[buzzdog]

One thing to add to all this. Fuck Owen Miller.

 

[Kiddo]

One thing to add to all this. Fuck Owen Miller.

Why? He didn't chose to be traded.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The decision to have Straw pinch run for Freeman was not about stealing a base. Tito wanted Straw in center field late in a close game over Will Brennan. With this move Brennan took over in right for Arias, so the defense was improved in two positions. Arias went to third for Freeman. Straw wasn't scheduled to hit for nine more batters and Tito was gambling the game would not go into extras, or if it did, he preferred to have better outfield defense at two positions than one better bat.

Unfortunately, we did not win in 9 innings and Straw did have to bat in a critical situation. I think you can make the argument for and against the move.

The real problem was Stephan giving up a hit to Owen Miller on a first pitch fastball up and then Jose swinging at three pitches that were way out of the zone followed by Naylor chasing two pitches that weren't close.

Tito could have pinch hit Bell for Straw but if Bell tied the game and we had to play more the only recourse would have been putting Bell at first base, Naylor in right, and Brennan in center. Naylor hasn't played right field since his injury, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Martyinnewyork]

The decision to have Straw pinch run for Freeman was not about stealing a base. Tito wanted Straw in center field late in a close game over Will Brennan. With this move Brennan took over in right for Arias, so the defense was improved in two positions. Arias went to third for Freeman. Straw wasn't scheduled to hit for nine more batters and Tito was gambling the game would not go into extras, or if it did, he preferred to have better outfield defense at two positions than one better bat.

Unfortunately, we did not win in 9 innings and Straw did have to bat in a critical situation. I think you can make the argument for and against the move.

The real problem was Stephan giving up a hit to Owen Miller on a first pitch fastball up and then Jose swinging at three pitches that were way out of the zone followed by Naylor chasing two pitches that weren't close.

Tito could have pinch hit Bell for Straw but if Bell tied the game and we had to play more the only recourse would have been putting Bell at first base, Naylor in right, and Brennan in center. Naylor hasn't played right field since his injury, if I'm not mistaken.

Uh - Straw could’ve gone to CF the next inning, there was no need to have him run for Freeman in order to get him in CF.

 

[buzzdog]

Why? He didn't chose to be traded.

Oh, he could have swung the bat more the way he did when he was in Cleveland.

 

[sportscoach]

Oh, he could have swung the bat more the way he did when he was in Cleveland.

He was thrown into a role here that he isnt suited for... In Milwaukee, whatever he does with the bat is bonus, but here, he was thrown into the 4 hole and had to produce, or we didn't score runs... He also has home cooking in a sense in Milwaukee, growing up 30 minutes from the stadium.

 

[CATS44]

CATS I respect your opinions on lots of matters, but you have to be blind to not see the numerous idiotic moves and non-moves that Tito makes on a regular basis. I know- ”he’s a Hall of Fame manager“.

I'm not blind to all the winning that Franconas teams have done.

The key for a manager is more about macro managing, not micro managing...but fans only see, and focus on in game decisions. And they have the benefit of hindsight, while ignoring the fact that no decision is black and white.

The 'right' decision isn't defined by the result, although that's the only thing that fans see.

The other night Tito left Bibee in in order to try to get him thru the sixth. It 'worked', so it must have been the right call. But had Bibee given up a hit that scored runs, there would have been two pages of complaints about Tito always leaving a pitcher in one batter too long.

Same decision, different result...different opinion of Tito.

Yesterday, Straw stole second, putting him in scoring position...which was the reason for Titos decision....a great decision.

But...

Arias interfered with the catcher. The stolen base didn't count. Straw was then thrown out. Titos decision went from great to awful. Same decision, different result.

Tito IS a HOF manager, and that fact IS germane to any discussion of him and his in game decisions.

And he definitely has scoreboard.

And I will ALWAYS use that as the counter to all the ridiculous carping about Titos managerial ability.

And one more thing...

If this org had another $50-100 mil to put into payroll, Tito would be an even better manager...lol.

Players play the game, not managers. Blame the players when they fail.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I'm not blind to all the winning that Franconas teams have done.

The key for a manager is more about macro managing, not micro managing...but fans only see, and focus on in game decisions. And they have the benefit of hindsight, while ignoring the fact that no decision is black and white.

The 'right' decision isn't defined by the result, although that's the only thing that fans see.

The other night Tito left Bibee in in order to try to get him thru the sixth. It 'worked', so it must have been the right call. But had Bibee given up a hit that scored runs, there would have been two pages of complaints about Tito always leaving a pitcher in one batter too long.

Same decision, different result...different opinion of Tito.

Yesterday, Straw stole second, putting him in scoring position...which was the reason for Titos decision....a great decision.

But...

Arias interfered with the catcher. The stolen base didn't count. Straw was then thrown out. Titos decision went from great to awful. Same decision, different result.

Tito IS a HOF manager, and that fact IS germane to any discussion of him and his in game decisions.

And he definitely has scoreboard.

And I will ALWAYS use that as the counter to all the ridiculous carping about Titos managerial ability.

And one more thing...

If this org had another $50-100 mil to put into payroll, Tito would be an even better manager...lol.

Players play the game, not managers. Blame the players when they fail.

I don't know why you refuse to admit tactical mistakes.

It's just weird.

Yeah, Tito has a bunch of positives around the clubhouse culture he builds and being patient with guys. He helps them feel comfortable and that plays well over a 162-game marathon.

He also makes plenty of tactical errors, like having Straw bat with the game on the line while Josh Bell sits on the bench.

You can say that you feel the positives outweigh the negatives, but to pretend like the negatives don't exist is just weird behavior.

 

[CDAV45]

He was thrown into a role here that he isnt suited for... In Milwaukee, whatever he does with the bat is bonus, but here, he was thrown into the 4 hole and had to produce, or we didn't score runs... He also has home cooking in a sense in Milwaukee, growing up 30 minutes from the stadium.

That and he has a year of experience under his belt. Remember, Owen came out of the gates hot last year and then was moved to 1B. I don't know for sure if that had anything to do with it or just coincidence, but he fell off after putting the big mitt on.

Anyone that has been here for awhile knows that I am a big Owen Miller supporter, but I don't blame them for trading him. One of him or Freeman needed to go and they chose Miller. I would have dealt Freeman if possible.

 

[macbdog]

Way too much handwringing going on over this. Tito made one mistake- not pinch hitting for Straw. That was it.

1. Pinch running Straw was the right move. Straw is supposed to do two things well: defense and steal/run the bases. This is exactly how he should be used. Straw failed to swipe the bag, and the two hitters didnt get hits either. I don't see any blame for Tito here.

2. What exactly did it hurt pulling Freeman? Because guess what: you STILL should pinch hit Bell for Freeman, too.

3. Jose and Naylor needed to come through there. Not going to rio into them, though, because that's baseball, even the best fail 70% if the time there.

4. Only real fault there is not pinch hitting for Straw. So criticize away there.

All that being said, this level of arguing doesn't make sense to me. Time to move on.