2024 Guardians Regular Season Thread

[Mott the Hoople]

No Manzardo until the Super 2 hurdle is definitely cleared.

If Valera is doing anything, my gut tells me he is the guy they'll call up first. I think they will try to go with someone on the 40 man first, even if it is not Valera.

I don't care about the Super 2 stuff. (Of course I'm not the owner). I want to win games now, and Manzardo is ready. If he's eligible for arbitration in 2026, that's no big deal. If he's good, he will earn what he gets. Maybe that would be an incentive for the FO to make an early contract offer.
Besides, by then the Guardians may have a different primary owner. I thought the plan was that Dolan would gradually fade out.

 

[Criznit]

Do we even really need to be concerned who'd we call up if/when we jettison Laureano or Florial? I would be giving Arias and Fry the shot I would think. So...

DFA/Trade Laureano in one month or so, performance to be considered of course.

1. LF - Kwan
2. 2B - Gimenez
3. 3B - Ramirez
4. DH/1B - Naylor
5. RF - Florial/Arias/Brennan
6. 1B/DH Manzardo
7. CF - Freeman/Brennan/Florial
8. C - Naylor/Fry/Hedges
9. SS - Rocchio/Arias

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Do you think Florial would have been traded if they didn't pick up Soto? It's hard to compare what a team with unlimited monies does to a team with very little spending room. One can afford to be impatient and just sign the best players available while the other must develop their own and take chances on flawed players with upside. It's the nature of the beast.

Good point about the acquistion of Soto possibly making Florial available, or at least more available. The Guardians did a nice job in jumping on that opportunity, IMO.

Soto also pushed Aaron Judge to center field. They have Verdugo in left. The Yankees are in a win-now mode and are not in a position to give regular playing time to a guy like Florial even if they had an opening, which they don't. Also, he's out of options so they pretty much had to trade him for whatever they could get.

So let's see what the man can go with regular at-bats. At least he's got a good batting eye and a relatively low chase rate.

It's clear to me even with a small sample that he's a low ball hitter. He swings and misses a lot of fastballs up. I see pitchers attacking him that way all the time similar to Naquin when he was here. Last night was an awesome example:

Fastball up - swing and miss
Changeup down and away - ball one
Fastball up - swing and miss
Fastball up - ball two (he laid off it)
Change down and away - ball three, now 3-2 count
Fastball up and in - foul
Fastball up and in - foul
Fastball down and in - home run

The key for Florial is to lay off the fastballs above the zone and the breaking stuff below the zone. He needs to foul off the fastballs up in the zone and keep the at-bat alive until he gets walked or the pitcher makes a mistake and comes down in the zone - exactly what happened last night. If he can develop that ability we could have a really productive power hitter on our hands.

 

[Otsego Mar]

I don't care about the Super 2 stuff. (Of course I'm not the owner). I want to win games now, and Manzardo is ready. If he's eligible for arbitration in 2026, that's no big deal. If he's good, he will earn what he gets. Maybe that would be an incentive for the FO to make an early contract offer.
Besides, by then the Guardians may have a different primary owner. I thought the plan was that Dolan would gradually fade out.

Well, we are winning games now (probably should be 21-8 instead of 19-10), and Manzardo isn't going to be brought up before the time manipulation - I think that's apparent.

 

[Criznit]

I don't care about the Super 2 stuff. (Of course I'm not the owner). I want to win games now, and Manzardo is ready. If he's eligible for arbitration in 2026, that's no big deal. If he's good, he will earn what he gets. Maybe that would be an incentive for the FO to make an early contract offer.
Besides, by then the Guardians may have a different primary owner. I thought the plan was that Dolan would gradually fade out.

Super 2 is a real thing for us. See Bo Naylor. No way he is coming until then, but others like Tena, Valera, Noel, Johnathan Rodriguez might. Heck even Daniel Schneemann might come up first.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Jose has been the most frustrating to me to open the season. Right now, he's chasing a career high number of balls outside the zone (38.9%, previous high of 32.3% in 2022, career average 27.6%). He's also just swinging a lot more in general right now.. 53.0% (previous career high: 47.6% in 2014, career average 43.4%).

You were obviously looking at the same column I was. The numbers are shocking. Here are Jose's chase rates by year, rounded off:

2018: 20%
2019-21: 23%
2022-23: 28%
2024: 37%

WTF? This is a very disturbing trend. This is not something that came up this year. This is six years now that he's becoming more and more undisciplined.

In 2018 Jose had 39 home runs, a .939 OPS, and a WAR of 7.9, highest of his career. Last year his OPS was .831, still good, but his lowest since 2019.

He gets himself out again and again chasing bad pitches, or gets himself down in the count. Actually, he's hitting .310 with two strikes on him, so he's been doing a really good job when down to his last strike.

It's when he's ahead in the count that he's flailing. When he puts the ball in play on a 2-0, 2-1, or 3-1 count he's an astonishing 4-for-22. It looks to me like when he's ahead in the count he's expecting a strike and gears up to take a big swing, then can't stop himself if the pitch is out of the zone or on the edges.

It's backwards from normal; he's hitting great with two strikes but getting himself out consistently when ahead in the count. Whatever happened to sitting on one pitch and not swinging if you don't get it?

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

Yes, I also believe in going with the high ceiling guys until they prove they can't get there. I'm starting to think players like Freeman, Brennan, and Rocchio are going to end up as mediocre major league players. Bimbo thinks Rocchio's deveopment has stalled and he isn't doing anything at the major league level.

Laureano has not been good since 2019 and he claims he's healthy now.

I agree Florial and Arias need to play as much as possible. I'm intrigued with Florial, but I'm not buying in yet. One, I'm skeptical that tall left-handed power hitters with a lot of swing and miss will ever be any good. Bradley Zimmer and Bobby Bradley did that to me along with Will Benson and Nolan Jones (currently hitting .214 and .170). Two, the Yankees gave Florial away for nothing after eight years in their system. I don't think the Yankees are stupid.

The Yankees aren't stupid but they are not always patient either. And they have the ability to just trade for Soto to fix the problem and not worry if he leaves in free agency because they can buy someone else.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

I don't care about the Super 2 stuff. (Of course I'm not the owner). I want to win games now, and Manzardo is ready. If he's eligible for arbitration in 2026, that's no big deal. If he's good, he will earn what he gets. Maybe that would be an incentive for the FO to make an early contract offer.
Besides, by then the Guardians may have a different primary owner. I thought the plan was that Dolan would gradually fade out.

Though the Super 2 stuff may also assist Cleveland setting up the benefit of a long term deal in the future because it delays the big contract longer. Cleveland wouldn't delay the call-ups if they didn't calculate the long term benefit.

 

[TxBuckeye]

Cody Morris is definitely not "nothing". Converted to relief by NYY we might have done the same thing. He's walking people a lot more the last couple years, but if he can get back on track/closer to previous results? I do not see why he couldn't make and perform in a MLB bullpen.

You could say the same thing about Florial also right? If he can get back on track/closer to his previous results then he could certainly help a roster.

 

[Criznit]

You could say the same thing about Florial also right? If he can get back on track/closer to his previous results then he could certainly help a roster.

Pretty much. The key differences are Morris still has options or is on his last year of them and Florial does not. Additionally if we did DFA Florial this would be his second time so he could reject the assignment if he chose too.

So it's ride or die IMO.

 

[Beanie4Heisman]

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Small market teams like the Guardians need to find ways to acquire high ceiling guys and then give them enough rope to either become stars or bust. They can't just buy stars, they have to grow their own.

Emmanual Clase is a great example. On the verge of the majors he had a 100 mph cutter. We traded the last year of Kluber's contract for him, made him the closer, and he became an All-Star and led the league in saves two years running.

Josh Naylor is another example. The Guardians saw the potential, traded for him, and played him every day from Day One.

Guys with high ceilings like Florial and Arias need to have a chance to develop into great players - if they can. We don't know if they can, but the potential is there. Arias has the power to clear any fence with ease - left, right, and center. He just needs to learn to get more balls in the air. His line drive rate increased from 18% to 23% from last year and his ground ball rate has declined from 52% to 45%. Baby steps, but he's moving in the right direction.

Florial has pop and plate discipline - a dangerous combination. With him it's whether he can learn to consistently lay off the fastballs above the zone and the breaking balls below while pouncing on pitches in the bottom half.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Good point about the acquistion of Soto possibly making Florial available, or at least more available. The Guardians did a nice job in jumping on that opportunity, IMO.

Soto also pushed Aaron Judge to center field. They have Verdugo in left. The Yankees are in a win-now mode and are not in a position to give regular playing time to a guy like Florial even if they had an opening, which they don't. Also, he's out of options so they pretty much had to trade him for whatever they could get.

It had nothing to do with Soto. It was all about Spongebob.

 

[PPark]

I’m a bit confused. Could someone define “high upside”? Because of the players being referenced in the thread it appears one tool (raw power) is being utilized to define high upside rather than—if you will—the sum of a players tool belt or the common usage of high upside.

 

[Tondo]

I’m a bit confused. Could someone define “high upside”? Because of the players being referenced in the thread it appears one tool (raw power) is being utilized to define high upside rather than—if you will—the sum of a players tool belt or the common usage of high upside.

Exactly.

Tells us more about what the poster thinks about upside or how the poster thinks scouts think about it. Has nothing to do with reality