2024 NBA Playoffs: First Round

[AustinCarr]

Damn it Lee, I didn't want to make this a thing.....

This team as built isn't a contender. Lots of good pieces but it's just not there. Maybe if mobley takes a huge step forward, Mitchell signs up long term, Merrill becomes decent on the defensive side, garland gets a lot better in the final 3 minutes of the half. Then maybe we are talking.

But I'm not making that bet.

If the options are just keep doing the same thing with a new coach or go trade garland for a 1 year LeBron rental and make a go at it... Well I'm making a go at it

But why would those ever be the only options?

I'd hate to throw away the majority of Mitchell and Allen's primes with a mediocre remaining roster because we got impatient with an ancient LeBron rental. All for an off chance that it might gel in time to compete once. I'd rather leave the Suns to do that sort of team building.

If Garland has to go, IMO, you look to solutions that match the team's timeliness.

 

[bob2the2nd]

But why would those ever be the only options?

I'd hate to throw away the majority of Mitchell and Allen's primes with a mediocre remaining roster because we got impatient with an ancient LeBron rental. All for an off chance that it might gel in time to compete once. I'd rather leave the Suns to do that sort of team building.

If Garland has to go, IMO, you look to solutions that match the team's timeliness.

Yes how many top 20-25, players are available for garland?

I know LeBron is available. Fill me in on who else

 

[Mr. Orange]

Not sure I am willing to give up Garland for a 40 year old Lebron. He will fall off a cliff one of these years very, very soon.

That’s what people said in 2019

 

[2 For The Brew]

That no-trade clause on a contract and player like Beal is just such a killer. It'd be one thing if it was Booker or Durant, but damn. Cavs apparently couldn't even find a taker for Love on an expiring contract.

Phoenix should honestly try to trade Beal for Ben Simmons and whatever else they can get from the Nets, even if it's only one of their 1sts back. Given how shitty that Beal contract is, they might not even be able to do that.

The Nets are likely to be flooded with calls asking about Ben Simmons and offering to trade a longer contract. Beal, Poole, Trae are all candidates off the top of my head.

Koby will be involved with those discussions. Not, of course, to get either Expiring Ben or one of those awful contracts but to try to be the third team that helps the deal along and steals a small but juicy asset.

The smart move for the Nets is to stop the stupidity, eat Ben’s last year and not acquire any more overpriced me first players which is why I expect them to make a deal.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

But why would those ever be the only options?

I'd hate to throw away the majority of Mitchell and Allen's primes with a mediocre remaining roster because we got impatient with an ancient LeBron rental. All for an off chance that it might gel in time to compete once. I'd rather leave the Suns to do that sort of team building.

If Garland has to go, IMO, you look to solutions that match the team's timeliness.

If the Cavs would’ve just said fuck it and traded Garland for LeBron ant the beginning of the year we are probably the favorites in the East. Mitchell, Strus, LeBron, Mobley, Allen would’ve been a dominant lineup that could’ve taken out the Celtics for sure.

I’m not saying I would’ve advocated for it at the time, but it’s undeniable in retrospect.

 

[AustinCarr]

Yes how many top 20-25, players are available for garland?

I know LeBron is available. Fill me in on who else

Why does this conversation keep getting qualified? There are a ton of guys outside the top 25 who are great players. Why on earth would that be a constraint and not getting a guy who makes the team better?

The reality of the Cavs situation is that there is no clear recovery in the aftermath of the trade you propose.

Say it's the "Likely" best case. Cavs trade Levert, Garland, and pieces for Lebron. They win a championship. Yay!

Lebron retires a champion and we get to hang our second banner. (I recognize there is a chance he wouldn't retire, but given the way he has talked lately I feel its likely he would),

Now we have a team that only has Mobley, Allen, and Mitchell. If that didn't cut it with Garland added, it certainly won't without him. You are basically the Raptors post-Leonard.

But we have little-to-no draft capital to recover. We now spend Donny's 28-32 y/o years as an afterthought team 4-8th seed. Barring a major trade there is no recovery beyond blowing it up. But even that won't work because you don't control your picks until the next decade.

Now how about a much more likely scenario:

That same thing but we don't win the Championship?

And we have gone ahead and thrown away the whole build on this one bet that failed. Its Durant to the Suns all over again.


Now I don't know who is available. No one does for sure. But I am not making that LeBron bet. No chance.

 

[bob2the2nd]

Why does this conversation keep getting qualified? There are a ton of guys outside the top 25 who are great players. Why on earth would that be a constraint and not getting a guy who makes the team better?

The reality of the Cavs situation is that there is no clear recovery in the aftermath of the trade you propose.

Say it's the best case. Cavs trade Levert, Garland, and pieces for Lebron. They win a championship. Yay!

Lebron retires a champion and we get to hang our second banner.

Now we have a team that only has Mobley, Allen, and Mitchell. If that didn't cut it with Garland added, it certainly won't without him. You are basically the Raptors post-Leonard.

But we have little-to-no draft capital to recover. We now spend Donny's 28-32 y/o years as an afterthought team 4-8th seed. Barring a major trade there is no recovery beyond blowing it up. But even that won't work because you don't control your picks until the next decade.

Now how about that same scenario but we don't win the Championship? The most likely scenario is that we DON'T win.


Now I don't know who is available. No one does for sure. But I am not making that LeBron bet. No chance.

Seriously? You are a Cleveland fan and you would be upset if this team traded garland to win the cities 2nd championship in 60 years.

For fucks sake this conversation is over.

 

[AustinCarr]

Seriously? You are a Cleveland fan and you would be upset if this team traded garland to win the cities 2nd championship in 60 years.

For fucks sake this conversation is over.

No. I'd be happy with that result.

I'd hate the next decade of the team's tenure, but it would have been worth it.

But I still don't see that are the likely outcome. You still need to make It through the east and then beat whoever comes out of the west. Trading for LeBron does NOT guarantee a championship. Not by a longshot.

I don't risk a decade of enjoyable fandom for an off chance of winning once.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Yes how many top 20-25, players are available for garland?

I know LeBron is available. Fill me in on who else

I don't consider Garland a top 25 player, so I wouldn't expect him to bring one back. Especially not at the salary he's making.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

No. I'd be happy with that result.

I'd hate the next decade of the team's tenure, but it would have been worth it.

But I still don't see that are the likely outcome. You still need to make It through the east and then beat whoever comes out of the west. Trading for LeBron does NOT guarantee a championship. Not by a longshot.

I don't risk a decade of enjoyable fandom for an off chance of winning once.

I agree. One problem with going all in for a very short window to win a championship is there is no guarantee you actually win it. Considering the possibility of injuries, etc., you're almost certainly talking less than a 50% chance anyway. Last time I thought a preseason favorite actually had greater than a 50% chance was GSW after acquiring Durant. Other than that, I personally haven't seen a team I'd have given a 50% chance to win it since Jordan.

So yeah, I'm not willing to trade a long period of competitiveness for a year of "all-in". I'd rather just enjoy good basketball for an extended period and perhaps have another shot/shots at a championship than doesn't require that kind of move.

Hell, I wouldn't do that trade even if it was a guaranteed. 10 years of unwatchable ball is too high a price to pay.

 

[AustinCarr]

I agree. The problem with going all in for a very short window to win a championship is there is no guarantee you win it. Considering the possibility of injuries, etc., you're almost certainly talking less than a 50% chance anyway. Last time I thought a preseason favorite actually had greater than a 50% chance was GSW after acquiring Durant. Other than that, I personally haven't seen a team I'd have given a 50% chance to win it since Jordan.

So yeah, I'm not willing to trade a long period of competitiveness for a year of all-in"

If it was a 50/50 bet, my calculus would change. But no way it's that. Not even remotely close to that. Do you risk a decade for a 10% chance? 15%? At what point is that risk worth it? I think I am more risk-averse than others here. I just don't see a Championship coming out of that one opportunity as likely.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

If it was a 50/50 bet, my calculus would change. But no way it's that. Not even remotely close to that. Do you risk a decade for a 10% chance? 15%? At what point is that risk worth it? I think I am more risk-averse than others here. I just don't see a Championship coming out of that one opportunity as likely.

A championship literally takes place within a single tick of a clock in that final game. Before that final tick, you're still just a contender. Which means that during the entirety of what turned out to be a championship season, all the fun of cheering for that team, you're not actually a champion. Does that mean it wasn't fun or enjoyable?

Fans are looking for fun/enjoyment. Players are trying to achieve a personal goal, which is why I can better understand players sacrificing everything for a title than I can fans doing the same. Especially after the 52 year monkey is off our backs.

 

[AustinCarr]

A championship literally takes place within a single tick of a clock in that final game. Before that final tick, you're still just a contender. Which means that during the entirety of what turned out to be a championship season, all the fun of cheering for that team, you're not actually a champion. Does that mean it wasn't fun or enjoyable?

Fans are looking for fun/enjoyment. Players are trying to achieve a personal goal, which is why I can better understand players sacrificing everything for a title than I can fans doing the same. Especially after the 52 year monkey is off our backs.

I am not sure what you are trying to argue here. Yes, that one season of being a contender would be fun. And if you lost you would ultimately have a fun year that ended in disappointment. And then another 5-10 years of disappointment that followed without the afterglow of victory to get you through the lean years. Near 40-year-old LeBron is still a really great player. He isn't Carry-you-on-your-back-to-the-finals good anymore, though. If you can somehow find a way to get a 1-year rental of 2012-2018 LeBron, let's talk. But not 2024-2025 LeBron. Its a poor risk/reward proposition to me. Its like going on a date with a dream woman where there is a 10 percent chance you get laid and a 90 percent chance your wife finds out and you lose custody of your children. Just not worth it.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I am not sure what you are trying to argue here. Yes, that one season of being a contender would be fun. And if you lost you would ultimately have a fun year that ended in disappointment. And then another 5-10 years of disappointment that followed without the afterglow of victory to get you through the lean years. Near 40-year-old LeBron is still a really great player. He isn't Carry-you-on-your-back-to-the-finals good anymore, though. If you can somehow find a way to get a 1-year rental of 2012-2018 LeBron, let's talk. But not 2024-2025 LeBron. Its a poor risk/reward proposition to me. Its like going on a date with a dream woman where there is a 10 percent chance you get laid and a 90 percent chance your wife finds out and you lose custody of your children. Just not worth it.

I'm saying that even a 50% chance of a championship doesn't change that equation. Because during what turns out to be championship season, you don't even know it is a championship seasons until the end. So is the ride itself enjoyable, or not, even without the championship? I say it is.

I don't see the value in exchanging the few moments of actually winning the championship - moments that occur only after the season is over - for years and years of fun to watch basketball. No way in hell I'd trade 10 years of a competitive team for a 50% chance at winning a championship, plus nine crappy seasons.

 

[kidduck]

No way the regular season can prepare a team for the ramped up physical
style that rules the postseason NBA. Night and day. Gotta be tough in body and brains.
The meek don't win the Larry O'Brien trophy.

Availability is a must. Fate can be fickle.