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Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

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Wentz has looked really good to just fine in what I have seen of him this year. The blame for them underachieving has to fall on a defense that cannot defend the pass in a pass happy NFL. They've been bottom 5 the past 2 seasons

In watching Wentz, I saw a guy who wasn’t surrounded by much talent. His line was leaky and they can’t run the football. Their defense got pushed around and gashed 6 ways to Sunday. He was scrambling well, and even scrambling inside of the pocket and keeping his eyes up, but damn, the Eagles are boned.
 
I came in here to mention the same thing this morning. The last couple weeks people are claiming that we got the worst quarterback out of the first round from the last few drafts. Hell not just Darnold but even Wentz is leaving much to be desired, outside of the Super Bowl winning season that he wasn’t part of that Eagles team has totally underachieved and a lot of it rides on him.

Has whoever said that SEEN Josh Rosen

I mean this far it’s probably playing out like so:

Mahomes
Watson
Goff
Mayfield
Wentz?
The rest
 
Lets see Baker vs NE first..
No need. My statement was more about pining for Darnold than anything.

If we had Darnold instead of Mayfield and Mayfield played out his exact career in NYJ, this forum would be melting

Pining for Darnold is the ultimate grass is greener take. We would HATE him if he was here

Also the Pats D is great, but last night was mostly on Darnold. That was aggressively bad QB play. It was Weeden-esque play. He was just throwing the ball up in the middle of the field with no purpose at all. Multiple times. The ghosts must have told him to do it
 
Has whoever said that SEEN Josh Rosen

I mean this far it’s probably playing out like so:

Mahomes
Watson
Goff
Mayfield
Wentz?
The rest

What are you basing your list off of? How they've played so far + potential?

It's certainly faur to be higher on Mayfield than Wentz in the long term, but Wentz has unequivocally been the better QB

My rankings of the 11 1st round QBs from 2016-2018 simply based off of NFL performance:

1. Mahomes
2. Watson
3. Wentz
4. Goff
5. Lamar
6. Mayfield
7. Darnold
8. Josh Allen
9. Trubisky
10. Rosen
11. Lynch

I'm sure people will have issues with ranking Lamar Jackson higher, but he has played better than Mayfield. I'd certainly prefer Mayfield as my franchise QB going forward and I do wonder about Lamar's ceiling.
 
Has whoever said that SEEN Josh Rosen

I mean this far it’s probably playing out like so:

Mahomes
Watson
Goff
Mayfield
Wentz?
The rest

Oh, Wentz is behind Mayfield?

And Lamar isn't on it...

That, I'm sure, has a tremendous amount of thought behind it.
 
What are you basing your list off of? How they've played so far + potential?

It's certainly faur to be higher on Mayfield than Wentz in the long term, but Wentz has unequivocally been the better QB

My rankings of the 11 1st round QBs from 2016-2018 simply based off of NFL performance:

1. Mahomes
2. Watson
3. Wentz
4. Goff
5. Lamar
6. Mayfield
7. Darnold
8. Josh Allen
9. Trubisky
10. Rosen
11. Lynch

I'm sure people will have issues with ranking Lamar Jackson higher, but he has played better than Mayfield. I'd certainly prefer Mayfield as my franchise QB going forward and I do wonder about Lamar's ceiling.
I lowered Wentz because he has been significantly injured a few different times now and unable to close seasons out.

I don’t think it’s really fair to compare a guy 4 seasons in with someone 2 seasons in as well. So you have to use some projection in there to kind of even it out a bit.

Still think Mayfield has been considerable better than Lamar thus far through 1.25 seasons and any of the other 2018 draft crop.
 
I don’t think it’s really fair to compare a guy 4 seasons in with someone 2 seasons in as well. So you have to use some projection in there to kind of even it out a bit.

Agreed 100%


Still think Mayfield has been considerable better than Lamar thus far through 1.25 seasons

I disagree here. As simply a passer, Baker was considerably better last season. Lamar has been better this year as a passer, without even factoring what does on the ground.

I agree that Lamar may have some limitations but I think fans get too hung up on the playoff game last year and some of his other struggles.

EDIT- I really, really don't want this to turn into another Lamar vs. Baker argument so I am going to stop and "agree to disagree" beyond this post.
 
No need. My statement was more about pining for Darnold than anything.

If we had Darnold instead of Mayfield and Mayfield played out his exact career in NYJ, this forum would be melting

Pining for Darnold is the ultimate grass is greener take. We would HATE him if he was here

Also the Pats D is great, but last night was mostly on Darnold. That was aggressively bad QB play. It was Weeden-esque play. He was just throwing the ball up in the middle of the field with no purpose at all. Multiple times. The ghosts must have told him to do it
Well, I wanted Darnold all along. But at this point you can’t really say he looks any more promisjng than Baker who had a better rookie campaign. And obviously I’ve fully embraced Baker. I just need this fuck to play better. And this game is gonna suck.
 
Agreed 100%




I disagree here. As simply a passer, Baker was considerably better last season. Lamar has been better this year as a passer, without even factoring what does on the ground.

I agree that Lamar may have some limitations but I think fans get too hung up on the playoff game last year and some of his other struggles.

EDIT- I really, really don't want this to turn into another Lamar vs. Baker argument so I am going to stop and "agree to disagree" beyond this post.
Yeah, although we may want to wait until Baker pads his stats vs the Fins and other cupcakes before we start comparing him and Lamar’s passing.
 
Yeah, although we may want to wait until Baker pads his stats vs the Fins and other cupcakes before we start comparing him and Lamar’s passing.

On top of that this season is 6 games in.

Over the larger sample size of 16 last year Baker was much, much superior as a player.
 
What are you basing your list off of? How they've played so far + potential?

It's certainly faur to be higher on Mayfield than Wentz in the long term, but Wentz has unequivocally been the better QB

My rankings of the 11 1st round QBs from 2016-2018 simply based off of NFL performance:

1. Mahomes
2. Watson
3. Wentz
4. Goff
5. Lamar
6. Mayfield
7. Darnold
8. Josh Allen
9. Trubisky
10. Rosen
11. Lynch

I'm sure people will have issues with ranking Lamar Jackson higher, but he has played better than Mayfield. I'd certainly prefer Mayfield as my franchise QB going forward and I do wonder about Lamar's ceiling.

Lamar's case seems predicated on health. Vick managed to stay relatively healthy but he also wasn't running at this frequency and he was a much more stoutly built guy. Vick was built more like a running back. I think, for Lamar to stick in that upper group, he just has to improve as a passer. All of his passing metrics are incredibly underwhelming.

36% of his passing yards on the season and 64% of his passing TD's came in their first two games, against Arizona and Miami. Both are horrendous defensively (bottom 3 in the league in defensive DVOA).

In the 5 games since playing those two awful teams, he has 4 passing TD's, 5 INT's, 1054 passing yards (210 per game) on 60% completion. Those are pedestrian numbers. 2 of those 5 games he threw for less than 200 yards and it honestly should have been 3. He eclipsed the 200 yard mark against the Browns on that meaningless screen pass that someone missed a tackle on.

He's fun to watch....but it seems unlikely that he would reach (to me), the ceiling of Mahomes, Watson, Wentz or Mayfield. He's more effective than Baker currently but long term, his passing strides need to be real for him to have long term success......unless he's just incredibly lucky and stays healthy for his career. It's just tough to believe that a QB carrying 180+ times a year is sustainable in any way....I also think he, kind of under the radar, is also taking a lot of hits in the pocket. He's been sacked 17 times already. My takeaway from the last stretch of games is that he has yet to prove he can play from behind and leverage his throwing to bring a team back with any sort of consistency. If he can play from ahead, his legs are an effective way to chew clock.
 
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Oh, Wentz is behind Mayfield?

And Lamar isn't on it...

That, I'm sure, has a tremendous amount of thought behind it.
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Lamar's case seems predicated on health. Vick managed to stay relatively healthy but he also wasn't running at this frequency and he was a much more stoutly built guy. Vick was built more like a running back. I think, for Lamar to stick in that upper group, he just has to improve as a passer. All of his passing metrics are incredibly underwhelming.

36% of his passing yards on the season and 64% of his passing TD's came in their first two games, against Arizona and Miami. Both are horrendous defensively (bottom 3 in the league in defensive DVOA).

In the 5 games since playing those two awful teams, he has 4 passing TD's, 5 INT's, 1054 passing yards (210 per game) on 60% completion. Those are pedestrian numbers. 2 of those 5 games he threw for less than 200 yards and it honestly should have been 3. He eclipsed the 200 yard mark against the Browns on that meaningless screen pass that someone missed a tackle on.

He's fun to watch....but it seems unlikely that he would reach (to me), the ceiling of Mahomes, Watson, Wentz or Mayfield. He's more effective than Baker currently but long term, his passing strides need to be real for him to have long term success......unless he's just incredibly lucky and stays healthy for his career. It's just tough to believe that a QB carrying 180+ times a year is sustainable in any way....I also think he, kind of under the radar, is also taking a lot of hits in the pocket. He's been sacked 17 times already. My takeaway from the last stretch of games is that he has yet to prove he can play from behind and leverage his throwing to bring a team back with any sort of consistency. If he can play from ahead, his legs are an effective way to chew clock.

The Titans and Jets are in that same bottom tier of DVOA, right?

I suppose the interceptions worry me less than Baker's. His 1st vs. the Browns was a 55 yard heave to the end zone and the 2nd was tipped at the LOS. His first 2 vs. the Steelers were bad decisions. The 3rd was a well placed ball that his receiver lost when he hit the ground. This of course doesn't tell the whole story which how risky he is/isn't with the football. Just thought it'd be fair to analyze his INTs like I did with Baker several pages back.

I think we'd be remiss to not bring up his 450 rush yards and 3 rush TDs in his past 5 games

Agreed with your last paragraph, pretty much exactly how I feel.
 

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