Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

So why do you think teams failed to learn from that highly publicized game, and just do the exqct same thing to the Browns/Stefanski last season? It's not exactly rocket science, and Belichek gave the entire league the template.

I'm not sure what you're asking.

Are you implying that we ran the exact same scheme as those McVay Rams of 2018 and could be exploited in the same way?

Because I don't think that's the case.

I'm just saying--everyone thought the Rams had a balanced scheme and brilliant leader, like we have with Stefanski. If Baker isn't the guy, as @Jordan pointed out, schemes can get busted.

 

[Ohio]

I respect all of your guys’s opinions on this. All I’m saying is that I’ve seen similar movies before and am probably letting precious experiences cloud my judgment, but that I think waiting and seeing is a safer bet than putting money down now.

Again, I fully admit that I’m probably wrong, but it’s just my position. I do like Baker and think he is the guy, but I just personally haven’t seen enough consistent evidence that I’d be willing to put money down yet.

I'm with you.

The risk of paying Baker now is not worth the reward (potential savings down the line), especially with the impending cap rise due to the new TV contracts. Paying Baker top 5 QB money now, before he is a top 5 QB, would be really risky.

If he becomes that top 5 QB, great. That's a good thing, even if it means we end up having to pay him top 3 QB money because of it.

It makes sense for both sides to wait. Baker isn't going to sell himself short (nor should he) and the Browns aren't going to pay him top 5 QB money right now (nor should they).

I think we're going to see a similar situation play out with Ward, more so due to his injury history than his performance. If anyone gets extended this Summer, my guess is it's Chubb.

 

[Jordan]

I'm with you.

The risk of paying Baker now is not worth the reward (potential savings down the line), especially with the impending cap rise due to the new TV contracts. Paying Baker top 5 QB money now, before he is a top 5 QB, would be really risky.

If he becomes that top 5 QB, great. That's a good thing, even if it means we end up having to pay him top 3 QB money because of it.

It makes sense for both sides to wait. Baker isn't going to sell himself short (nor should he) and the Browns aren't going to pay him top 5 QB money right now (nor should they).

I think we're going to see a similar situation play out with Ward, more so due to his injury history than his performance. If anyone gets extended this Summer, my guess is it's Chubb.

Agreed 100%. I think Ward is amazing and would re-sign him yesterday if I owned the team, but the logic to wait is the same.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I'm not sure what you're asking.

Are you implying that we ran the exact same scheme as those McVay Rams of 2018 and could be exploited in the same way?

Because I don't think that's the case.

I'm just saying--everyone thought the Rams had a balanced scheme and brilliant leader, like we have with Stefanski. If Baker isn't the guy, as @Jordan pointed out, schemes can get busted.

My point is that it isn't the "balanced scheme and brilliant leader" factor -- it's the horses we've got that the Rams didn't. Gurley, unlike Chubb, is a system RB who turned out to be overrated. Chubb has averaged 5.0+ ypc in three seasons under four different head coaches. He's not a system guy, and on the path to be an HOF back at this point.

We have arguably the best offensive line in the game, and the best RB's. That's admittedly an enormous advantage for any QB, and Baker may be a different QB without them. But that's not a scheming issue -- that's just a flat-out personnel advantage we're going to have for most of the season. So if the reason we're waiting to sign him to a contract is to see what he is like with a mediocre line, and mediocre backs....it's very likely not happening.

Actually, to some extent, that did happen with all those injuries and Covid last season, and I'd say that Baker still performed in those games in a way that warrants a long-term deal. So what are we waiting to measure that against? Let's assume there is one game where some other coach makes some unforeseen, brilliant adjustment, and maybe we're missing some OL, and Chubb is out, etc... And let's say Baker looks like crap.

The problem is that even great QB's can have crappy games. So are we going to say "Well Baker, you had this one really crappy game, and we're going to ignore all those other games in which you've overcome adversity, focus on this one, and not offer you that big contract." I just don't see that, and I don't see anyone here even making that argument.

So that's my issue. If Stefanski was running some gimmick offense out of the pistol with a lot of RPO's, or going empty backfield w/5 pass-catchers, or somehow tricking the rest of the league, I'd be more worried about an adjustment proving Baker is a fraud. But that's not what I see. What I see is an efficient, well-structured but not wildly innovative offense with some great personnel outside the QB...although in fairness to Baker, he doesn't have anyone near either Tyreek Hill or Travis Kelce, much less both of them.

 

[natedagg]

Oh I def risk it with Baker and sign him more cheaply now versus waiting, but:
1. I don't think Baker wants to do that and
2. I think it's an interesting counter-point nonetheless.
I don't

 

[bob2the2nd]

Agreed 100%. I think Ward is amazing and would re-sign him yesterday if I owned the team, but the logic to wait is the same.

.....

what???

you are afraid of re-signing Baker because he might just be an system QB, but you are more than willing to sign a CB that only plays 75% of the time?

 

[Jordan]

.....

what???

you are afraid of re-signing Baker because he might just be an system QB, but you are more than willing to sign a CB that only plays 75% of the time?

Sorry - I worded that REALLY poorly. I meant that I know Ward has done great community stuff for non-profits I care about in Cleveland, but the logic to not re-sign him is the same as the logic to not re-sign Baker.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

My point is that it isn't the "balanced scheme and brilliant leader" factor -- it's the horses we've got that the Rams didn't. Gurley, unlike Chubb, is a system RB who turned out to be overrated. Chubb has averaged 5.0+ ypc in three seasons under four different head coaches. He's not a system guy, and on the path to be an HOF back at this point.

We have arguably the best offensive line in the game, and the best RB's. That's admittedly an enormous advantage for any QB, and Baker may be a different QB without them. But that's not a scheming issue -- that's just a flat-out personnel advantage we're going to have for most of the season. So if the reason we're waiting to sign him to a contract is to see what he is like with a mediocre line, and mediocre backs....it's very likely not happening.

Actually, to some extent, that did happen with all those injuries and Covid last season, and I'd say that Baker still performed in those games in a way that warrants a long-term deal. So what are we waiting to measure that against? Let's assume there is one game where some other coach makes some unforeseen, brilliant adjustment, and maybe we're missing some OL, and Chubb is out, etc... And let's say Baker looks like crap.

The problem is that even great QB's can have crappy games. So are we going to say "Well Baker, you had this one really crappy game, and we're going to ignore all those other games in which you've overcome adversity, focus on this one, and not offer you that big contract." I just don't see that, and I don't see anyone here even making that argument.

So that's my issue. If Stefanski was running some gimmick offense out of the pistol with a lot of RPO's, or going empty backfield w/5 pass-catchers, or somehow tricking the rest of the league, I'd be more worried about an adjustment proving Baker is a fraud. But that's not what I see. What I see is an efficient, well-structured but not wildly innovative offense with some great personnel outside the QB...although in fairness to Baker, he doesn't have anyone near either Tyreek Hill or Travis Kelce, much less both of them.

Putting aside things like you calling Gurley a "system RB," what point are you trying to make?

I'm in favor of extending and committing to Baker.

The hypothetical being explained, that was posited by @Jordan was "if it's Stefanski's system..." and you asked why, if it's Stefanski's system, could things happen.

Saying "it's not Stefanski's system" is non sequitur.

 

[Beanie4Heisman]

The counterpoint to the discussion that Baker solely excelled under Stefanski would be his performance in his rookie season here in CLE.

It set a handful of passing records in club history and also had him in the conversation for rookie of the year as well.

Seems to me his efficiency and decision making will get more refined in the coming months and next handful of seasons as well under Alex Van Pelt & Kevin.

Dude balled out in season 1 and then again last year post-bye week. Let us not forget his nearly perfect second half to carry us to victory against the Bengals. QB #6 will seemingly be our guy for the foreseeable future.

 

[Sebastian]

I heard a certain someone is available. Top Tier QB. He and the FO are not getting along.

They evidently don't want too much.

Spoiler

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

I respect all of your guys’s opinions on this. All I’m saying is that I’ve seen similar movies before and am probably letting precious experiences cloud my judgment, but that I think waiting and seeing is a safer bet than putting money down now.

Again, I fully admit that I’m probably wrong, but it’s just my position. I do like Baker and think he is the guy, but I just personally haven’t seen enough consistent evidence that I’d be willing to put money down yet.

I’m with you on this. I like Baker, and after being hard on him early in the season I was impressed with how he performed down the stretch.

That being said, it’s not worth attempting to save some money by signing him now when you have this year to evaluate him. Why? If he plays like many of us think he can then no one on this board or in the organization is going to have an issue paying him however much money he wants.

However, if we sign him now and he plays like shit, tears up his knee, tears up his shoulder, gets in trouble off the field, etc., then the Browns screwed themselves all in the name of trying to save some money.

If he sucks or gets hurt and they don’t sign him, the Browns suddenly have the most attractive job for any available QB, potentially a situation very similar to what Brady stepped into in Tampa.

 

[Triplethreat]

 

[TyGuy]

I like how Baker always seeks out slights to keep himself motivated.

 

[JDailey23]

Yeah, a JT fan. I like it!

 

[ChicagoCavFan]

Yeah, a JT fan. I like it!

Um yea that dropped him down a few cool points in my book. I mean, I like JT too. Some great songs. But he hasn't been relevant in years - although he was recently in the news with the Britney saga and how he is supposedly selfish with everything. Maybe he is playing social media chess? But I see him rockin that Wakesetter, and it is certainly not playing Mirrors. Update that shit Baker....